ALC Game 17, Take 2: Russia/Peter (BtS)

[sigmakan]

You'll be able to choose from +2 beakers for every library, an extra free scientist in your GL city (if you have the GL, obviously), or a random ancient tech you don't have yet.

Keep in mind other civs get the quest too, so don't take too long to build those libraries if you want to win it.

Its +2 beakers in ONE library, thats how it was when I finished the quest in my recent game

EDIT:
Also, in my shadow game I played, I didnt steal a worker from Julius, thus I didnt declare war on him so soon. This resulted in him building stonehedge for me and another city for me. When he sent out that settler he left 1 archer in Rome, needless to say it was a cakewalk. Point is, stealing a worker might not always be the best move, there werent many tiles to improve at the time.

 

[NaZdReG]

the free scientist doesnt expire later IIRC. 3b/pt+ 3gpp/pt forever + modifiers is pretty damn good.

NaZ

 

[Validator]

It was a good job taking out Caesar. But now comes the hard part: getting your economy going and expanding with out killing it.

Things will get better once you get the gold mine near St. Pete/Ruska rebuilt and worked. Also it's time to get libraries built in Moscow and St. Pete (after its second work boat). That should improve the research rate considerably. But you will need to be careful as you expand.

I didn't really like any of the earlier dotmaps as I thought they were trying to fit too many cities on this landmass. My attempt at a dotmap:

I'd settle blue city next. It can make a good cottage spammed bureaucratic capital (15 cottages + gold mine). Plus it paves the way toward the cyan city which you'll need to found soon to get the marble hooked up.

I would also found the red city ASAP. It can work the gold mine while slow building a monument and granary so it will pay its maintenance. I don't like some of the other options that were presented for this area that had just the pigs and gold. There's a lot of low food tiles in the area so two food sources will be needed to have a decent city.

The yellow and purple cities will be able to run multiple specialists so I would try to get them up as soon as your economy can support them.

The orange city will be a decent city once you can chain irrigation down there. Since that won't happen for a while there's no hurry getting that site settled. I don't think you have any short term need for horses.

This isn't a huge number of cities but it looks like you'll be trying to found cities on a number of islands so I wouldn't go overboard on the mainland.


A couple of minor points when moving forward:

• Do you intend to cottage or farm Ruska's floodplains? If you're going to farm them you should pillage the cottages before Ruska comes out of revolt.
• I would pull the galley back so that the scout can get loaded on board. The landmass to the west looks large so you may need some land based scouting to reveal the whole thing. Also there may be huts. And if you do run into the mystery AI over there you should be able to get OB and use the scout to explore their territory.

 

[kniteowl]

What about a City 1 West of the copper? It'll work the fish and share the calms with Rome plus it can get hammers from Copper and it'll be of good use running a couple/few Specialist.

I personally don't like wasting Food Resources if I can help it.

Well there's no pain in Switching techs, I Hear they don't Decay, (Correct me if I'm Wrong).

Personally the other Tech I'd be researching right now would be Masonry=>Aesthetics=>Poly=>Literature for Early GL.

I Don't see the Problem with staying on MC and getting Forges and Colossus, you might get lucky and pick up the Pyramids

Build a Forge Assign a Engineer and wait for 17 turn lmao! If someone takes Pyramids you can save him for a Quick GL, although If you do go down that Direction Marble city isn't as important assuming Pyramids have been taken.

So what gambit do you want to take?
Rexing and Beelining for the GL and win the quest?
or go down MC for GE and Colossus?

both sound like very lucrative options.

OH btw you might want to consider switching to Alphabet if you meet two or more AIs.

 

[cabert]

I'd go with Validator's dotmap + a copper city (1W of copper).

Techwise, just finish MC then go for the GL.
The pyramids gambit seems doable to me if you push your science (pillaging those cottages seems a bit wasteful, but it would be the sign of a true SE )

Edit : whip workers (you need at least 6 more!) apply overflow to settlers, slow build settlers to avoid unwanted growth. Size 6 cities can whip the library.
Monotheism for OrgRel and spreading hinduism might be a good idea when you're ready for forge and library spam.

Edit 2 : time to move your galley around !

 

[kniteowl]

Why not move Brown/Orange/Horse Dot 1 North so it can overlap with Red dot and share the Wheat for quick growth, besides it still coastal so there's no lost except maybe a Couple of overlap tiles.

 

[jerVL/kg]

I agree with moving Brown Dot/Horse City 1N to claim the wheat. Additionally, I would move Red Dot 1N to claim that extra flood plain.

The rest of Validator's dotmap looks fine -- Purple Dot is an especially inspired choice, I never would've thought of that!

Since Hinduism has spread to your lands, you might as well convert while Rome is still in revolt.

 

[Mesousa]

Its +2 beakers in ONE library, thats how it was when I finished the quest in my recent game

I really don't know. I got the quest once and took the extra scientist, so I never got to check myself. Now I see some people saying they checked and it's only one library, and some say they checked and it's a bonus to all libraries. No idea.

+2 beakers to just one library seems so weak though that I "hope" there might be a bug involved when people get it and it's supposed to be all libraries.

 

[EEE_BOY]

It was a good job taking out Caesar. But now comes the hard part: getting your economy going and expanding with out killing it.

Things will get better once you get the gold mine near St. Pete/Ruska rebuilt and worked. Also it's time to get libraries built in Moscow and St. Pete (after its second work boat). That should improve the research rate considerably. But you will need to be careful as you expand.

I didn't really like any of the earlier dotmaps as I thought they were trying to fit too many cities on this landmass. My attempt at a dotmap:

I'd settle blue city next. It can make a good cottage spammed bureaucratic capital (15 cottages + gold mine). Plus it paves the way toward the cyan city which you'll need to found soon to get the marble hooked up.

I would also found the red city ASAP. It can work the gold mine while slow building a monument and granary so it will pay its maintenance. I don't like some of the other options that were presented for this area that had just the pigs and gold. There's a lot of low food tiles in the area so two food sources will be needed to have a decent city.

The yellow and purple cities will be able to run multiple specialists so I would try to get them up as soon as your economy can support them.

The orange city will be a decent city once you can chain irrigation down there. Since that won't happen for a while there's no hurry getting that site settled. I don't think you have any short term need for horses.

This isn't a huge number of cities but it looks like you'll be trying to found cities on a number of islands so I wouldn't go overboard on the mainland.


A couple of minor points when moving forward:

• Do you intend to cottage or farm Ruska's floodplains? If you're going to farm them you should pillage the cottages before Ruska comes out of revolt.
• I would pull the galley back so that the scout can get loaded on board. The landmass to the west looks large so you may need some land based scouting to reveal the whole thing. Also there may be huts. And if you do run into the mystery AI over there you should be able to get OB and use the scout to explore their territory.

It's validator's dotmap that I wanted to go with. one extra city 1 W of copper. I agree with the rest. the northern crab city on tetra if there is no resource on that island.

moai statue on that pig fish city.

finish MC and if u can manage to find two more civ by then, go alphabet, if only one civ, research all those religious by yourself.

look out the date when stone wonders tbeing completed , if they come fast and furious, then the pyramid is out. if they seem to be delayed a lot , u have very high probability grab it with your first GE.

marble and stone are very rare on big and small map. I had one game recently and only two marble and one stone in the world, another marble is on those island chain. so do spend hammers to grab those shiny marble wonder, and don't forget the Mausoleum of Maussollos, golden age helps u a lot when beelining tech or catch-up. its easy to get 5 golden ages in this game.

i like the idea using drama to get happiness, it's brilliant. if u go that way, don't build any cottage to avoid waste.

the national epic- national park combo works perfect, but plan ahead to save forests for it. it looks like the north-eastern crab-clam city or the eastern flood-gold city are both candidate.

 

[EEE_BOY]

I am also thinking city specialization according to validator's dotmap (actually i post the similar map before. sorry validator, i own the copy right, haha, but i would call it validator's dotmap.)

st peterburg --Wall street city ( gold=civilized jewelry , iron=creative construction, fish=sushi' co.)i am not sure about the shine, it's unpredictable, and u might want to adopt other one's religion for diplomatic reason.

red city---iron work city(a lot river tile for levee and watermill, the rest mined or workshop, food sufficient)

Rome---oxford city (obvious)

Blue city--national epic + national park

marble city -- military city(found the standard ethanol for oil only in this city if necessary or prevent others found it, capital can also found the standard ethanol) and build workshop on grassland tiles before CS)

capital could be all purpose city--research or production or military

the red city is better than the blue city for iron work since all river tiles in red city can build a watermill.

 

[CivSetä]

OK, here is updated version of my dotmap.

1) As suggested this is good site for pyramids, if you are planning to chop them. Possible lategame powerhouse with watermills, levees and Ironworks. Can also be cottaged for bureaucracy capital (and GL).

2) Another great riverside city. Pigs are enough for growth when floodplains are farmed.

3) Copper city for Colossus. You can't hook copper fast enough other way.

4) My favourite SE smallville. Library can be whipped fast.

5) Horse and marble city. This city really sucks until CS.

6) OK riverside city. Some food for mediocre growth. Levees and biology will change it to a great late game city. Build it late.

7) Nice island city, got the idea from Validators dotmap. It is better to have pigs too, #8 can be pressed more inland. Fast library.

8) Another mediocre city. Better in late game with levees.

9) Plantation city. Will never have much production.

I'm quite sure about cities 1,2,4, and 7. Rest of them are more or less compromises and there is a hole in the western coast. Maybe #6 should be pulled 1E inland to make room for one more coastal city?

Cabert, you asked about why I want to avoid overlap: I think that there is definitely more than enough room, so why build maximum number of cities? City upkeep is going to be high anyway, and 12 cities in this continent is enough for any victory condition. (And some islands are surely settled too.) IMHO it is waste to spam 15+ cities in this land mass.

About next steps:
- Finish MC and build Colossus. It will help you a lot because you are working seafood tiles anyway.
- Don't go for alphabet! It is too late, research Aesthetics instead. You can trade MC for alphabet probably.
- Explore. Find out where AIs are located and block them.
- Settle more cities. Priorize islands which can block AIs from entering your continent.
- I think it is probably too late now for pyramids, so I would prepare for GL instead. And what is the use of pyramids anyway if you plan to use HR? You can trade MC for monarchy too. You need two AIs anyway.

 

[Fetch]

I'd build another galley in Moscow to explore to the NE. Wouldn't it be cool to circumnav before 1 AD? Doubt you could, but you can get 1/2 the world done easily. ... oh, and put a scout on it!

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Validator's dotmap is awesome.

I would move the blue dot 1SE and forget about purple city. Lots of food, and basically no hammers. You aren't exactly going to whip out the Moai Statues either, and even if you do, so what? It's not that many hammers and not that many commerce either. With the blue dot moved 1SE, however, the pigs can feed the gold miners. Your iron city was founded for short-term benefit, and your prize was really Rome. I would keep up the "short-term-benefit" doctrine and try to snowball your way out of what I feel may be a semi-isolated start. And you don't exactly have a lot of hapiness resources either.

Which leaves me to the next point: you'll be playing a quite-isolated game for a while, so your swordsman weren't a waste. Fogbusting for one, and you could also stack them in cities for hereditiary rule bonus, which is IMHO massively underrated, provided you work matured cottages, specialists or hill mines. Plus they're better against chariot and horse archer barbarians that may appear in the South. People freak about the unit upkeep involved in hereditiary rule bonus, but forget the marginal benefits. MR=MC point becomes very high.

My next move: red dot, then brown dot. You've got lots of gold, don't worry about city upkeep! If you really want the quest, move the brown dot 1E for hte marble, then you're set.

 

[futurehermit]

Very nice round!

Settle down now to covering your island. The tricky thing is currency + col vs. aesthetics-lit.

If you get the GL + 7 libraries you get a FREE SCIENTIST in your GL city effectively making the uber wonder an uber uber wonder.

So, maybe aesthetics-lit + 7 total cities then currency-col and cover the rest of your land mass. Add some island cities and go for the space win.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Its +2 beakers in ONE library, thats how it was when I finished the quest in my recent game

My code read backs that up - specifically the library in the city which triggered the quest.

 

[sigmakan]

Oh, if you want to get the GL bonus, make sure you build it before your 7th library . . . lol

 

[Scaphism]

If it's only +2 in the one city I'd say stick with Metal Casting.
Forges and Colussus will definitely outweigh the benefit of +2 . Although when I think about it, how could it possibly be +2 in just one city versus +1 free scientist? That's completely lopsided.

I like Validator's dotmap a lot.

I see what people are saying about CopperFishville S of Ruska, but that's a late priority. It won't be particularly productive nor pay for its maintenence early, nor does it fogbust or claim many tiles that the AI would try and squeeze a settler onto. Your culture will soon claim all those land tiles and you can settle it at any point in the distant future when you want a city that can support a few more specialists.


Since you have Sailing, you *could* settle right on top of the marble and that should hook it up right away. Then you don't have to send workers and spend turns hooking it up. That city will be slow to develop regardless. It's obviously a better city with those 4 sugar tiles but 30-40 turns from now getting marble ASAP will be a big priority.

Moving horse city 1N would gain you the wheat (not irrigated yet - 4F is not that strong) but you'd lose 2 hills in horse city. Not worth it in my opinion - as it stands that's a very strong coastal production city. As Validator has it, every tile is a grassland, grassland hill, and 4 coast. It will be able to work all 6 grassland hills with little trouble. 6 Grassland hills (1F3H) = 18 H, +1 Horse (2F3H). That means 5 farms to work all of those grassland hills. It will grow slowly without a food resource so don't whip much (besides a granary) but even at small sizes it can work a horse and a hill and grow slowly.

I like Orange Dot a lot, you get to work gold right away and it won't pay a ton in distance maintenance.

Two quick reminders (you probably don't need them) but you are still expansive and get +25% to worker production. You also have a lot of swords and not a lot of axes - and the barbarians are going to come with axemen.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Although when I think about it, how could it possibly be +2 in just one city versus +1 free scientist? That's completely lopsided.

My guess: a higher reward for completing the challenge with a higher degree of difficulty.

There isn't, to my knowledge, reason to expect these new features to be properly balanced at this point.

 

[futurehermit]

+2 beakers is if you only do the libraries. +1 scientist is if you get the GL.

 

[EEE_BOY]

If it's only +2 :science" in the one city I'd say stick with Metal Casting.

if only +2 for one city,which city? i think it should be +2 for all library built. not sure though.

Forges and Colossus will definitely outweigh the benefit of +2 . Although when I think about it, how could it possibly be +2 in just one city versus +1 free scientist? That's completely lopsided.

the colossus doesn't compete with the quest, i would like to achieve both.

I like Validator's dotmap a lot.

another vote then. it deserves the popularity.

I see what people are saying about CopperFishville S of Ruska, but that's a late priority. It won't be particularly productive nor pay for its maintenence early, nor does it fogbust or claim many tiles that the AI would try and squeeze a settler onto. Your culture will soon claim all those land tiles and you can settle it at any point in the distant future when you want a city that can support a few more specialists.

in fact, if we head for colossus, this copper-fish city is a high priority, remember that the third roman culture ring didn't cover that copper tile. and if he does go for validator's dot map, the red city needs second border pop to claim that copper which is too late.

Since you have Sailing, you *could* settle right on top of the marble and that should hook it up right away. Then you don't have to send workers and spend turns hooking it up. That city will be slow to develop regardless. It's obviously a better city with those 4 sugar tiles but 30-40 turns from now getting marble ASAP will be a big priority.

no wonder building before we get the tech done (currently at least 5 more tech if no trading happens), so this city has enough time to pop border and claim that marble.

Moving horse city 1N would gain you the wheat (not irrigated yet - 4F is not that strong) but you'd lose 2 hills in horse city. Not worth it in my opinion - as it stands that's a very strong coastal production city. As Validator has it, every tile is a grassland, grassland hill, and 4 coast. It will be able to work all 6 grassland hills with little trouble.
.

if possible, i think the horse city will be after all seven. and the yellow city can also wait.

the order is like this (assuming the sisiuntil chose validator's dotmap.)

1,red(pay for it self nicely) -->
2,the copper-fish city (to aid the colossus,hammer bonus is always good, and
even without border pop, it can use that clam which is in Ruska (Rome)'s fat cross. build fish boat and whip monument when size two OR, build monument and whip granary when size two, very nice sample SE city) -->
3,blue(also pay for it self, depends on your expansion timing with researching MC, 2 and 3 can change order) -->
4,marble city-->
5,yellow
6,horse
7,purple (it has plain hill for production and can whip all the infrastructure while building moai statue)
8, probably the northern one

total 11 cities. build the forbidden palace in the horse city.