Bandobras Took
Emperor
In your capital?
ALC Game #25: Celts/Boudica
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
In your capital?
You need to build a monument in the other city if you settle on the copper, you won't have to do that if you settle on the plains hill(or NE for that matter)... the cost of a monument is roughly a chop... Simple math says that you'll get more hammers from settling on the plains hill between the wheat and the copper than the other options in the timeframe that matter(for the rush).
Pacifist46
King
How about this suggestion: Forgo an early rush.
Just joking of course.
Oh, and settle on the copper for speed. By the late-game, you'll be winning by so much, a couple of hammers won't make any difference.
Just joking of course.
Oh, and settle on the copper for speed. By the late-game, you'll be winning by so much, a couple of hammers won't make any difference.
Bandobras Took
Emperor
Chopping around your capital instead of diverting worker turns to that city initially seems the best option. All you need is road if you settle on the copper.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I agree with oyzar on 1 E. The copper city will be at best a glorified unit pump and it will not use the cow for quite a while. seeing it on that terms , we should maximize prod at 2 pop......
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
Why would it not use the cow for quite a while? I would think it gets the cow as soon as Medina is captured (all improved and ready to be used). It wont use the cow before the rush sure.
Not true. The monument means +1
which is one extra whipped axe/GW. The monument also helps protect copperville from medina's 2nd border pop. Which means an extra turn of movement into Saladin's land.And 1NE gives serious overlap with any potential cities to the East as well as with Medina. With more land available to settle 1NE is the best spot. But with the crappy terrain settling 1NE means having to settle more mediocre cities at a higher maintanance cost. The short term benefits of 1NE are negligable. I still like the idea of trying to plop a city 1W of the wine. This would be a nice medium strength production city with adequete food. the hammers invested in a settler would quickly be made up with axes produced there.
With regard to techs. I advocate agg followed by IW. By the time IW is finished the copper should be online. Saladin is protective so it is better to attack with GW than axes. The gap between getting the copper online and finishing IW can be spent building a few axes for stack/city defense as well as a couple spears in case we face chariots. DanF mentioned that CG2 archers will be rare. Ummmm, sal is protective so CG2 drill1 archers should be expected en masse. Axes are not the way to go. Unless you plan to lose 4-5 per city. Especially since sal gets cheap walls. Regardless of what promo line Sis decides on for the GWs an unpromoted GW is strength 7.2 when attacking a city. A CR1 axe is strength 6.75. That is before defender promos and bonuses. Axes will get mauled. GW's will sustain losses but not as many.
Also Sis can send a few GW's barb hunting for the extra exp for G3. It would be foolish to assume he will not be facing defending axes. A couple of nutcracker's with solid retreat odds an be a great help.
Sashimi917
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2007
- Messages
- 57
You will need some turns to build the barracks anyway, the worker can hook up the copper at that time. I suggest either settle E or NE of the copper.
Assume the border don't expand, you don't build a monument at this time, do you?
You get 6H(copper hill) + 4H(plain hill) + 1H(wheat plain) + 1H(city) = 12H for settling NE even the pop stay at size 3
You get 6H(copper hill) + 4H(plain hill) + 1H(wheat plain) + 2H(city) = 13H for settling E
You get 3H(city) + 1H(grassland forest) + 1H(grassland forest) +4H(plain hill) = 9H for settling on the copper.
even if you build a monument the cow is likely to be grabbed by Saladin until you conquere Medina, but at that time, it can be as well used by the citizens of Medina.
Assume the border don't expand, you don't build a monument at this time, do you?
You get 6H(copper hill) + 4H(plain hill) + 1H(wheat plain) + 1H(city) = 12H for settling NE even the pop stay at size 3
You get 6H(copper hill) + 4H(plain hill) + 1H(wheat plain) + 2H(city) = 13H for settling E
You get 3H(city) + 1H(grassland forest) + 1H(grassland forest) +4H(plain hill) = 9H for settling on the copper.
even if you build a monument the cow is likely to be grabbed by Saladin until you conquere Medina, but at that time, it can be as well used by the citizens of Medina.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Mainly because you can't assure that you'll control the cow
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
r_rolo1
King of myself
It is as well in Medina BFC 
And do you want to fight a culture war in a city that at best will be a unit pump?
And do you want to fight a culture war in a city that at best will be a unit pump?Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
It is as well in Medina BFC
I think you misread my post. I said after Medina is captured it can work the cow (the assumption being that Medina will be captured sooner than "in quite a while").
r_rolo1
King of myself
And you also misread mine.....
I'm clearly talking of the pre-war phase, that is clearly what matters. I that time it is quite unlikely that the copper city will grow in time to make a good use of the cow ( not mentioning the worker turns needed, that are less for the cow than for the wheat, due to distance ). And it is pretty likely that when you get the city good for using the cow that sal already had grabbed it......
And the after war, ultimately doesn't matter for this city. it will never be a good one.
I'm clearly talking of the pre-war phase, that is clearly what matters. I that time it is quite unlikely that the copper city will grow in time to make a good use of the cow ( not mentioning the worker turns needed, that are less for the cow than for the wheat, due to distance ). And it is pretty likely that when you get the city good for using the cow that sal already had grabbed it......
And the after war, ultimately doesn't matter for this city. it will never be a good one.
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
It would be a far better city post war with the cow though which is why I would not settle 1E. It could have a pretty strong midgame production. 1E is better pre rush but I think the cost outweigh the benefits, but I see your argument.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 2: 2725 BC to 1675 BC (42 turns)
First off, I changed research, going after Agriculture in anticipation of farming that wheat tile fairly soon.
Along the way, another religion got founded (this one from Monotheism, no doubt):
However, no religions on my continent thus far, at least not with the two neighbours I know about.
The discussion around where to place the copper city was very interesting but also a bit confusing. It was very hard to decide. I was about to flip a coin or something, but in the end I let the blue circle decide for me.
Well, that and the novelty of it; I usually don't settle on top of a resource.
Oyzar was lecturing me in a recent messaging session about food (that I should have researched fishing first), and he will probably lecture me again about not settling next to the wheat, but at the very least, I prioritized a monument to get the wheat within my borders.
I finished researching Agriculture...
...and went after Pottery next. Mainly for the Granaries to support whipping; I hadn't placed any cottages by the end of the round, but those will have to come along soon too.
And I would have definitely lost the race to Stonehenge... but look at who the victor was!
Well, that was pretty much what we'd hoped, wasn't it? Oh, we just HAVE to rush him now. And as you'll see, Saladin wasn't done with wonders.
The techs were rolling by relatively quickly thanks to that silver mine boosting research.
And Saladin built another wonder!
He must have had them built in different cities. He might have a source of stone too. He's just asking for an axerush, isn't he?
He also got to Writing ahead of me.
I reminded myself that while I have silver to help me, he has gold. Not for long though...
Around this time I decided that I was ready to start whipping, so I changed civics.
And promptly put my new civic to use:
And on the last turn of the round, I enabled the UU:
Turns out I have iron readily available:
Not that I need it just yet, but it will be a very nice production boost for the capital.
Anyway, that was the round. Here's a look at the map:
I managed to explore most of the south before my Scout was killed by a barb Archer. I was thinking of building another to explore Arabia and see if I can get further north.
As for techs, I've chosen Animal Husbandry next, but we should discuss if that's the best choice or not. I don't need it as a Worker tech for some time, so I was mainly thinking of revealing horses. (Mansa has some--he has an empty pasture on one of his tiles.) Maybe Masonry for Duns would be better? Or Writing?
I have 4 Axemen built now; at least two will have to stay put in my cities. With the Great Wall next door, I may be facing a higher amount of barb incursions (at least until I pry the GW from Saladin's cold, dead fingers). I was thinking that once the granaries are finished I'd focus on Gallic Warriors and see if I can't show off the UU. A few more turns to chop/whip the rest of the army, and then I hit Saladin. Make sense?
Between his wonders, good land, and early happy resources (gold and ivory!), Saladin has to die. So, I think that should be the focus of the next round. Agreed?
First off, I changed research, going after Agriculture in anticipation of farming that wheat tile fairly soon.
Along the way, another religion got founded (this one from Monotheism, no doubt):
However, no religions on my continent thus far, at least not with the two neighbours I know about.
The discussion around where to place the copper city was very interesting but also a bit confusing. It was very hard to decide. I was about to flip a coin or something, but in the end I let the blue circle decide for me.
Well, that and the novelty of it; I usually don't settle on top of a resource.
Oyzar was lecturing me in a recent messaging session about food (that I should have researched fishing first), and he will probably lecture me again about not settling next to the wheat, but at the very least, I prioritized a monument to get the wheat within my borders.
I finished researching Agriculture...
...and went after Pottery next. Mainly for the Granaries to support whipping; I hadn't placed any cottages by the end of the round, but those will have to come along soon too.
And I would have definitely lost the race to Stonehenge... but look at who the victor was!
Well, that was pretty much what we'd hoped, wasn't it? Oh, we just HAVE to rush him now. And as you'll see, Saladin wasn't done with wonders.
The techs were rolling by relatively quickly thanks to that silver mine boosting research.
And Saladin built another wonder!
He must have had them built in different cities. He might have a source of stone too. He's just asking for an axerush, isn't he?
He also got to Writing ahead of me.
I reminded myself that while I have silver to help me, he has gold. Not for long though...
Around this time I decided that I was ready to start whipping, so I changed civics.
And promptly put my new civic to use:
And on the last turn of the round, I enabled the UU:
Turns out I have iron readily available:
Not that I need it just yet, but it will be a very nice production boost for the capital.
Anyway, that was the round. Here's a look at the map:
I managed to explore most of the south before my Scout was killed by a barb Archer. I was thinking of building another to explore Arabia and see if I can get further north.
As for techs, I've chosen Animal Husbandry next, but we should discuss if that's the best choice or not. I don't need it as a Worker tech for some time, so I was mainly thinking of revealing horses. (Mansa has some--he has an empty pasture on one of his tiles.) Maybe Masonry for Duns would be better? Or Writing?
I have 4 Axemen built now; at least two will have to stay put in my cities. With the Great Wall next door, I may be facing a higher amount of barb incursions (at least until I pry the GW from Saladin's cold, dead fingers). I was thinking that once the granaries are finished I'd focus on Gallic Warriors and see if I can't show off the UU. A few more turns to chop/whip the rest of the army, and then I hit Saladin. Make sense?
Between his wonders, good land, and early happy resources (gold and ivory!), Saladin has to die. So, I think that should be the focus of the next round. Agreed?
LiberiGlacialis
To the stars!
Agreed. Skip the -1 revealed Diplo with MM, he'll trade with your anyways. Sally needs to be taught for last time why you do not "girt your loins, gear up for war, and do.....nothing."
Tyrant Roger
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2006
- Messages
- 203
Both wonders were built in Mecca. More wonders, good...
But the cultural defenses in Mecca will be high and you won't have catapults or spys to help you. Bring lots of axes and GW and watch them die gloriously for honor of the scottish highlands.
A scout to warn you of what you are facing would be worth the cost.
But the cultural defenses in Mecca will be high and you won't have catapults or spys to help you. Bring lots of axes and GW and watch them die gloriously for honor of the scottish highlands.
A scout to warn you of what you are facing would be worth the cost.
Sisiutil sier:
Anyway, the ALC round is up, settled on the copper, go ahead and slap me around for it
Sisiutil sier:
You know you want to
Ricardo sier:
On the cooper......
Ricardo sier:
following the blue circle... are you a AI BTW?
Ricardo sier:
lol
Sisiutil sier:
Heh
Sisiutil sier:
I had decided to settle on the copper and the blue circle almost made me change my mind
oyzar sier:
why is bicarte working a grass tile instead of a forest plains hill or something?
Sisiutil sier:
Ah
Sisiutil sier:
So I can whip 2 pop on the next turn
oyzar sier:
pottery before IW?
Sisiutil sier:
Granaries for whipping
Sisiutil sier:
I already had Axes, I didn't see the need to rush to GWs
Ricardo sier:
because they are better than axes?
Sisiutil sier:
Axes will hold their own til GWs come along
Sisiutil sier:
As soon as Sally built the GW I became concerned about barb defense
Sisiutil sier:
That's what the Axes will be busy with at first, I think
Ricardo sier:
At least you already got the HE unit?
oyzar sier:
it is not about holding your own
oyzar sier:
you played too much Mp lately
oyzar sier:
it is not like sal will attack you
oyzar sier:
you are only delaying the rush giving him more time to stumble into hooking up iron...
Ricardo sier:
I agree
Sisiutil sier:
I don't think Sal will attack, I think the barbs will
Sisiutil sier:
I'll get to Sal soon enough
Ricardo sier:
barbs... bah
Ricardo sier:
you should know better than that
Ricardo sier:
barbs are XP
Sisiutil sier:
True, but they can also be a nuisance
oyzar sier:
one axe is enough against the barbs... and it not like teching IW before pottery will slow down you from taking out barbs...
Ricardo sier:
you haven't done the granaries or a cottage until now anyway
oyzar sier:
I have 4 Axemen built now; at least two will have to stay put in my cities. you didn't build any warriors before you got copper hooked up? if so why?
Ricardo sier:
why hurry for pottery?
oyzar sier:
btw obviously don't take anything of this as an attack or something we are just giving criticism
Ricardo sier:
sis has hard skin
Sisiutil sier:
Hmmm, well, like I said to Oyzar yesterday, this sort of stuff should also go in the thread
Anyway, the ALC round is up, settled on the copper, go ahead and slap me around for it
Sisiutil sier:
You know you want to
Ricardo sier:
On the cooper......
Ricardo sier:
following the blue circle... are you a AI BTW?
Ricardo sier:
lol
Sisiutil sier:
Heh
Sisiutil sier:
I had decided to settle on the copper and the blue circle almost made me change my mind
oyzar sier:
why is bicarte working a grass tile instead of a forest plains hill or something?
Sisiutil sier:
Ah
Sisiutil sier:
So I can whip 2 pop on the next turn
oyzar sier:
pottery before IW?
Sisiutil sier:
Granaries for whipping
Sisiutil sier:
I already had Axes, I didn't see the need to rush to GWs
Ricardo sier:
because they are better than axes?
Sisiutil sier:
Axes will hold their own til GWs come along
Sisiutil sier:
As soon as Sally built the GW I became concerned about barb defense
Sisiutil sier:
That's what the Axes will be busy with at first, I think
Ricardo sier:
At least you already got the HE unit?
oyzar sier:
it is not about holding your own
oyzar sier:
you played too much Mp lately
oyzar sier:
it is not like sal will attack you
oyzar sier:
you are only delaying the rush giving him more time to stumble into hooking up iron...
Ricardo sier:
I agree
Sisiutil sier:
I don't think Sal will attack, I think the barbs will
Sisiutil sier:
I'll get to Sal soon enough
Ricardo sier:
barbs... bah
Ricardo sier:
you should know better than that
Ricardo sier:
barbs are XP
Sisiutil sier:
True, but they can also be a nuisance
oyzar sier:
one axe is enough against the barbs... and it not like teching IW before pottery will slow down you from taking out barbs...
Ricardo sier:
you haven't done the granaries or a cottage until now anyway
oyzar sier:
I have 4 Axemen built now; at least two will have to stay put in my cities. you didn't build any warriors before you got copper hooked up? if so why?
Ricardo sier:
why hurry for pottery?
oyzar sier:
btw obviously don't take anything of this as an attack or something we are just giving criticism
Ricardo sier:
sis has hard skin
Sisiutil sier:
Hmmm, well, like I said to Oyzar yesterday, this sort of stuff should also go in the thread
Artichoker
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,711
Here are the cities I recommend Sisiutil to settle:
1) Directly on Copper Plains Hill (already settled)
This city not only grabs copper but also can act as a hybrid production/commerce city.
2) 1NE of eastern Wheat
This city has as food sources the eastern Wheat, the middle Deer, and the eastern Cow. In addition, it has some hills to provide good early-game production and lots of riverside plains and grasslands to provide excellent late-game production. It's also on a river, which means it can build a levee. It will make a great Ironworks city, for sure.
3) 2N of western Wheat
This site is the same as the current dotmap.
4) 1SW of Spice
This site is the same as the current dotmap.
5) Directly on Wine
This will be 3 tiles away from city 2), the super production city. It will have access to 2 Deer, and 1 Cow. Although it loses the 2 extra commerce from the Wine, it will have a good balance of production and commerce tiles, despite being on the edge of the tundra.
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