ALC Game #25 Pre-Game Show: Playing as the Celts/Boudica
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
senor_k
Chieftain
If it was funny the first time, it's still gotta be funny the 100th time, right?
I figured I'd just get it out of the way early.
Guardian_PL
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2006
- Messages
- 1,231
Stone in BFC is definitely nice Killroyan, but I don't think that it'll happen on Immortal. Still, I'd make it a target after locating bronze, so chop/slowbuild Stonehenge (forested hills in BFC please), and later on, either find some industrious neighbour with stone that would be kind enough to build Mids for you, or chop them yourself for 6
per scientist. With those madscientists everywhere (well, you'll have plenty of conquered cities by then, right? 
) your research rate will flourish even on 0% and roaring, stomping machine of war will steamroll all those around you...
per scientist. With those madscientists everywhere (well, you'll have plenty of conquered cities by then, right? ) your research rate will flourish even on 0% and roaring, stomping machine of war will steamroll all those around you...
pigswill
fly (one day)
Agg and cha also give an edge to gunpowder units so it might be worth considering not over-expanding at the start ( maybe an axe/GW rush if there's an available target) and leaving the major wars until the gunpowder era.
If you build cities on hills and add a dun then you've got free protective trait (geurilla archers on a hill with a dun are as good as CG archers with a wall) so small expansion (6-8 cities), turtle then war wth drafted muskets/rifles.
If you build cities on hills and add a dun then you've got free protective trait (geurilla archers on a hill with a dun are as good as CG archers with a wall) so small expansion (6-8 cities), turtle then war wth drafted muskets/rifles.
vicawoo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 3,226
Or you could just kill everyone
Agreed.
Also, please don't play a highlands map. Play something remotely normal that doesn't just give you a headstart straight away. Like the "inland sea" Shaka game, highlands here wouldn't be very interesting (IMO).
(I still believe that with "inland sea" it's too easy to make your borders very small by utilising the water like you did. If you'd played "lakes" instead your borders would be far larger and you wouldn't have had such an easy game)
JujuLautre
Deity
May I suggest the unofficial update of the unofficial patch?
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Bah, what difference does Guerila promoted archers make. More importantly, where does Sis put his Maori Statues.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
This was a problem for me. My final solution was a slower start at the beginning to establish either a good shrined religion or a stronge REXED cottage based game. Her traits make warring at any era easy.
Sashimi917
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2007
- Messages
- 57
War is the only way to utlilize the traits of Boudica,
Shouldn't that be "for eligible units built in the city"?
I mean, which units can and can't receive Guerrilla promos?
TheDifficult3rd
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2005
- Messages
- 19
Numerous comments here about Boudica's economy being a potential problem, especially with no economy boosting traits and a potential borked economy after the early war / REXing that being Boudica demands.
However, I don't see a problem at all.
Let's look closely at Charismatic and her starting Techs and summarise what they give us:
- Charismatic gives +1
out of the box.
- Myst as starting tech and Charismatic together makes Henge a no brainer (I'm sorry you Henge haters, but it does!) for a further +1 in each city from the free monument.
- Not needing to slowbuild/chop/whip a monument in every city means those saved
can go into the City's first vital build (be it Unit / Barracks (for war) or Granary / Libs (for whipping / growth / economy)
- The appearance of the Great Prophet from Henge (assuming the RNG goes that way) can bulb Code of Laws to either found Conf for a Holy City and Shrine, will also give +1 from having a State Religion (if you've not got one already and/or if it is safe to adopt it for Diplo reasons) or, if founding Conf is unlikely on Immortal, then you still get courts relatively early to shore up the economy post REX / early war.
- All this means a potential +3 pop cap in each city in the early game. Pre-Calendar, that is a massive advantage, not even counting if we get Gold, Fur, Gems etc for even more. Those +3 pop will mean more whipping, more food tiles worked, more specialists, more cottages, more production, etc, etc.
So, like I say, I don't see a problem for the economy from those Traits, I see some great synergy and options.
However, I don't see a problem at all.
Let's look closely at Charismatic and her starting Techs and summarise what they give us:
- Charismatic gives +1
out of the box.- Myst as starting tech and Charismatic together makes Henge a no brainer (I'm sorry you Henge haters, but it does!
) for a further +1 in each city from the free monument.- Not needing to slowbuild/chop/whip a monument in every city means those saved
can go into the City's first vital build (be it Unit / Barracks (for war) or Granary / Libs (for whipping / growth / economy) - The appearance of the Great Prophet from Henge (assuming the RNG goes that way) can bulb Code of Laws to either found Conf for a Holy City and Shrine, will also give +1
from having a State Religion (if you've not got one already and/or if it is safe to adopt it for Diplo reasons) or, if founding Conf is unlikely on Immortal, then you still get courts relatively early to shore up the economy post REX / early war.- All this means a potential +3 pop cap in each city in the early game. Pre-Calendar, that is a massive advantage, not even counting if we get Gold, Fur, Gems etc for even more
. Those +3 pop will mean more whipping, more food tiles worked, more specialists, more cottages, more production, etc, etc.So, like I say, I don't see a problem for the economy from those Traits, I see some great synergy and options.
Dr Elmer Jiggle
King
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Messages
- 811
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Some comments on ability to get Stonehenge.
1) Boudica starts with no food techs, and only 1 military within one tech, the ever popular archery.
2) Stonehenge costs hammers and how to get them? Mining/BW means no food if your going to chop it out.
3) With slow growth, the charismatic trait is going to useless, why put Lady B in the hole so early.
4) Immortal means Stonehenge likely needs to be built by 2000 BC, preferably 2500 BC. I just don't see it unless Sis pops a needed tech or two from huts.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Boudica should become a pacifist. What I am saying is early patience works best with her. Get the worker techs, settle those military resources, get a good 4-5 city base and some cottages, and hit the happy caps first. Maybe tech currency/construction/CoL first.
Personally I would rather see him get the great wall. The AIs are slower at that than Stonhenge, Great at producing GGs by fighting a little defensively with Guerilla promoted Gallics on hills, and getting an early GSpy for either infiltration or settling to make up for the lack of economy traits.
AS far as the map, I vote NO to a highlands map.
1) Boudica starts with no food techs, and only 1 military within one tech, the ever popular archery.
2) Stonehenge costs hammers and how to get them? Mining/BW means no food if your going to chop it out.
3) With slow growth, the charismatic trait is going to useless, why put Lady B in the hole so early.
4) Immortal means Stonehenge likely needs to be built by 2000 BC, preferably 2500 BC. I just don't see it unless Sis pops a needed tech or two from huts.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Boudica should become a pacifist. What I am saying is early patience works best with her. Get the worker techs, settle those military resources, get a good 4-5 city base and some cottages, and hit the happy caps first. Maybe tech currency/construction/CoL first.
Personally I would rather see him get the great wall. The AIs are slower at that than Stonhenge, Great at producing GGs by fighting a little defensively with Guerilla promoted Gallics on hills, and getting an early GSpy for either infiltration or settling to make up for the lack of economy traits.
AS far as the map, I vote NO to a highlands map.
TheDifficult3rd
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2005
- Messages
- 19
What about as a warmongering Charismatic civ who will not have to build a monument in every city it founds and conquers?
Artichoker
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,711
I always like playing a Charismatic leader...it's like having a military trait and economic trait combined into one, unlike some of the other military traits that are available in the game.
The key to utilizing the military aspect (faster promotions) is to have some momentum going with successful battles...because the bonus does you no good unless your units gain some amount of XP. That's where Aggressive helps out, because it gives your units a bonus right away, even before they start fighting.
As far as the happiness bonus goes, I consider it an excuse to delay happiness buildings such as temples or colosseums. For the price of just 30 hammers, you gain the same happiness boost that an 80-hammer building gives you, for a large part of the game...and you gain another happiness for free.
I wouldn't give any preference toward building wonders with this leader. If the Stone or Marble is there to speed up their production, then by all means go for it, but be prepared for the resources to be absent.
I would recommend not over-investing hammers into buildings, because there is no special advantage there other than the bonus for Monuments.
Units, on the other hand, are above average...but the problem with units is that it's easy to fall into the trap of building too many of them, especially without an economic bonus to keep your economy from crashing during a war! The solution to this is not to over-emphasize production output, but rather capitalize on the superior efficiency of the hammers that you do invest into units.
The key to utilizing the military aspect (faster promotions) is to have some momentum going with successful battles...because the bonus does you no good unless your units gain some amount of XP. That's where Aggressive helps out, because it gives your units a bonus right away, even before they start fighting.
As far as the happiness bonus goes, I consider it an excuse to delay happiness buildings such as temples or colosseums. For the price of just 30 hammers, you gain the same happiness boost that an 80-hammer building gives you, for a large part of the game...and you gain another happiness for free.
I wouldn't give any preference toward building wonders with this leader. If the Stone or Marble is there to speed up their production, then by all means go for it, but be prepared for the resources to be absent.
I would recommend not over-investing hammers into buildings, because there is no special advantage there other than the bonus for Monuments.
Units, on the other hand, are above average...but the problem with units is that it's easy to fall into the trap of building too many of them, especially without an economic bonus to keep your economy from crashing during a war! The solution to this is not to over-emphasize production output, but rather capitalize on the superior efficiency of the hammers that you do invest into units.
All archers have a built in 25% hills defence, so it would be 6 str for the archer. When defending against an unpromoted axeman, the archer has better odds due to the first strike. 78.1% for the archer, 74.1% for the axeman.
Of course for the same number of promotions you can get a C1 Shock Guerilla 1 axeman with 97% chance to win if on a hill.
I had a bad experience with attacking Boudica, and not being able to take the capital with a dun on a hill. She got a great general and started producing guerilla III archers that even attacked my choking units.
