ALF 13 - Genghis Khan of Mongols (Deity)

[AbsoluteZero]

I don't know why you keep choosing these tough starts for deity. If you're new to deity you should try a decent start at least.

You're boxed in by izzy + saladin. This means you should probably rush, but the land is not so good for a HA rush.

To top it all off you are genghis not Kublai, so you don't have the advantage of grabbing land / resources with quick border pops. Not to mention slow libraries. Not to mention you have to tech mysticism ( a waste of like 80 beakers ).

With kublai this start would be doable, with genghis it's pretty rough.

 

[gspchamp999]

I don't know why you keep choosing these tough starts for deity. If you're new to deity you should try a decent start at least.

You're boxed in by izzy + saladin. This means you should probably rush, but the land is not so good for a HA rush.

To top it all off you are genghis not Kublai, so you don't have the advantage of grabbing land / resources with quick border pops. Not to mention slow libraries. Not to mention you have to tech mysticism ( a waste of like 80 beakers ).

With kublai this start would be doable, with genghis it's pretty rough.

With a goal of wins on random leader, random start, what better way to learn? I don't see how a 'decent start' will help. The objective should be to recognize the best way to play the start you are given.

With that said, i've watched probably all your videos. I just feel a suggestion (or video hint hint) would be better than a dismissal of the start.

 

[lymond]

^^^yeah, I second a more visual critique, AZ (hint hint)

 

[AbsoluteZero]

^^^yeah, I second a more visual critique, AZ (hint hint)

I'm making a vid of his other start with washington. Another map I wouldn't recommend for deity newbies.

 

[Silverbow]

I know both Deity starts have been hard ones. But I've been taking first starts & leaders that the game gives me all the time (except if it gave me a leader already played). Didn't feel like changing it.

I've also been watching your Louis video of late. I just hope Isabella doesn't have as many units as Sury there...

My tentative plan is to pillage Isabella's copper and horses ASAP with 2-3 keshik detachments.

 

[vranasm]

nice show up to this point...

and since the master already show up tough to say anything ;-).

in one of AZ's videos he trades HBR for alpha as suggested by Cree and I would agree on this, you have plenty of partners to get good things out of it.

I don't like that you didn't try for the city up north to share clams and get the other one to work.

I agree you need to fight Izzy, but will extremely hard, because I don't see a way you can pillage her copper reasonably soon.
If I were playing the war I would go in from Toledo->Barcelona->Madrid, but you should expect some spears.

 

[Silverbow]

Iirc copper can be gone on turn 3 of the war, giving her two turns to get more spears.

City that'd share crabs and grab whale requires sailing to settle.

 

[vranasm]

Iirc copper can be gone on turn 3 of the war, giving her two turns to get more spears.

City that'd share crabs and grab whale requires sailing to settle.

you mean the spot where barb warrior stands? it's clearly tundraconnected... or I am blind...

 

[Silverbow]

Nope, it's unreachable. Check a ss from page 1, when I settled 2nd city.

 

[Mylene]

I know both Deity starts have been hard ones.
My tentative plan is to pillage Isabella's copper and horses ASAP with 2-3 keshik detachments.

Actually this is not a hard start cos you have a plan with Keshiks, horses very near and no barb problems. Sure it might be very hard to win in the end, but imo that isn't the goal for you here.
You can learn how to set up for HAs on Deity, that's good.

Oh and never pillage horses, chariots are the best units she can build against you

 

[Rusten]

Seems you'll be able to trade for Alphabet, that's good. You will be able to work your way out of the hole by producing research. None of Spain's cities being on hills helps too. Also good that she has hooked up horses before copper.

Rush is probably good at this point, especially with the 2000 BC Pyramids.

RE: map: I hate it when the mapmaker does this. I'm assuming you didn't add any AIs. Sometimes it puts 5 civs on one continent and 2 on the other, very unfair and poorly balanced. It's one reason why I rarely play this map, sucks that it happened here.

 

[kossin]

Sorry to derail the thread

On sourceforge, versions of BUG and BULL are still 4.4 and 1.2. Do you mean the SVN version? Usually I avoid those, but that feature does look useful.

Yes SVN. They've been out for a long time and I didn't have any difficulty with them so far (granted I've barely played at all since upgrading).

I know both Deity starts have been hard ones. But I've been taking first starts & leaders that the game gives me all the time (except if it gave me a leader already played). Didn't feel like changing it.

I've also been watching your Louis video of late. I just hope Isabella doesn't have as many units as Sury there...

My tentative plan is to pillage Isabella's copper and horses ASAP with 2-3 keshik detachments.

Try Inland_Sea next, the difficulty is usually similar from game to game. Not being forced into an early rush can teach you a lot about openings on Deity.

 

[GenerallyGreat]

Oh and never pillage horses, chariots are the best units she can build against you

How great is it when your stack is getting thin and you can't quite finish off the capital that turn and you know a whipped unit is coming, "please whip a chariot" "please, please" and it comes up instead of the archer!

 

[Silverbow]

About techs... should I trade HBR to some AIs? And what should be my next research path?

 

[Mylene]

HBR is ok to all you don't want to attack, if you could get archery + X from someone that would be a good start, iam not sure about Alpha if you don't meet many AIs.
Next big tech should be slowly towards currency.

 

[Silverbow]

A few more things before attacking - more small stacks or one big? Should I attempt to pillage her copper? And which city to attack?

 

[CreeDakota]

I would go right for her heartland with everything. Barcelona turn 2, Madrid turn 4 after declaration. The capital is her highest hammer city and that takes out the copper.

Split stacks seem more vulnerable to spears to me. You want to be able to finish off any wounded spears that take out a horseman the next turn. If you did split you could take out Seville First turn which would be nice but I would be afraid of my main stack being too weak to take out the capital then. If that happens its basically game over even if your side stacks succeed.

any chance you can tell from yields if/where she has iron?

 

[Silverbow]

Well, this kinda sucks, but I've played the Spanish War to its conclusion...

First, I bulbed math:

Spoiler :

And I traded it around:

Spoiler :

I gave Cathy HBR when she demanded it:

Spoiler :

This got her to Pleased.

I kept chopping and whipping keshiks (after gers). Once I saw that Isabella had lot of troops in Barcelona, but left Murcia and Toledo basically undefended, I chose to deal an early blow, taking both on first turn:

Spoiler :

My stack bypassed the stacked Barcelona, and the morale GG medic had a move left and pillaged the copper:

Spoiler :

Madrid was also stacked, so I took Santiago:

Spoiler :

Eventually, she moved archers out of Madrid for some reason, and I took it:

Spoiler :

Meanwhile, my new keshiks which I kept pumping out went to the city south of Beshbalik and kept killing her chariots that milled around and assembling another stack.

Eventually I had enough keshiks there to take out her archer horde and take the city:

Spoiler :

Bruised, battered, and with Madrid defended only by two heavily wounded keshiks (including the GG), I took a favorable peace:

Spoiler :

Then, Cathy went after Izzy:

Spoiler :

I made the only trade that the pece enabled me to:

Spoiler :

Heading into strike fast, I wasted a turn deliberately by revolting into OR:

Spoiler :

And right after the peace expired, Cathy asked me to join back in:

Spoiler :

Which I naturally did.

FINALLY, I got Hinduism! Yay! And it was also another strike-delaying anarchy!

Spoiler :

My southern stack took Barcelona:

Spoiler :

Soon, barb galleys spawned to destroy my crab export to Saladin for 7gp:

Spoiler :

Isabella was kind enough to enshrine Buddhism in Barca, and all her and mine cities had it:

Spoiler :

I also sold cow to Saladin and fish to Cathy for much needed gold.

Unfortunately, Cathy elepulted the hell out of Salamanca. So I acted quickly and took Seville:

Spoiler :

And after healing up, I finished Isabella off:

Spoiler :

I saved here.

Tech situation is absolutely abysmal:

Spoiler :

Relations are pretty much a lovefest:

Spoiler :

So... time to recover the economy... somehow. I should also spread Hinduism, methinks...

 

[shyuhe]

Build research!

I'd restart though, as this game is clearly lost.

 

[Silverbow]

Really? I think it's fairly AP-cheesable.