Alignment civics

[loocas]

I'm assuming I'm not the first to think of this, so what are the arguments for and against having alignments as civics?

The way I imagine it, leaders would start with their default alignments, but players could change at will. Good would be available with Way of the Wise, Evil with Wicked. There would be alignment requirements on certain civics, as well as religions. This would keep the mechanic of religions changing your alignment. A player could switch to neutral anytime they want for the diplomatic bonuses, but not have certain units, civics, etc available to them. Anyway, if a player values diplomacy that much, then they should be neutral.

As far as I know, religions are the only way to change your alignments short of XML. I think alignment civics could add more role-playability and not detract from flavor.

 

[miracle]

As fas as I know slavery in Shadow avalible for evil civs only.

 

[Blakmane]

I don't think alignment is supposed to be such a flightful thing as you have described it in your post. It doesn't make much sense for example, for the calabim to be good one turn, evil the next and neutral 10 turns after that. Changing alignments is supposed to be difficult.

 

[Ekolite]

Also, the civs are good or evil based on whether their patron god is rebelling against the compact or not, I think. So it should be fixed.

 

[loocas]

I don't think alignment is supposed to be such a flightful thing as you have described it in your post. It doesn't make much sense for example, for the calabim to be good one turn, evil the next and neutral 10 turns after that. Changing alignments is supposed to be difficult.

But it is possible to do that. You can change religions as often as you can change civics, right? What I described has no technical difference than what already exists.

Also, the civs are good or evil based on whether their patron god is rebelling against the compact or not, I think. So it should be fixed.

I don't know the story too well, but didn't Basium break the compact? And why is Arendel good?

 

[Silverkiss]

I don't think it's as much as if the patron Angel is going against the Compact or not, but if they are Good/Neutral/Evil themselves.

 

[Ekolite]

Yeah but I think whether they are evil or good or w/e is partly defined by whether they are against the compact. Its just what side they're on in the angel war thing isn't it?

 

[ydejin]

But it is possible to do that. You can change religions as often as you can change civics, right?

There's a pretty hefty cost to changing religions. One of the benefits of a given religion is religion-specific units and especially heroes. Those go away when you switch religions. The only civic-specific unit I can think of off-hand is the Royal Guard, and I don't think there are any heroes which depend on civics independent of religion.

You need to plan very carefully when to switch between relgions. For example, I switched from Runes to Order (mostly because the only Gems were on the far side of the continent -- 500 turns later, I still haven't seen them, but I know one of my enemies has them). I had to phase out use of Runes Soldier's (which are quite good in the early game), and had to plan on Bambur going away (even though I had gotten him over 100XP and he was a key component of my military).

IMO while you do have to think through Civic's changes, Religious changes are much more likely to cause problems and should only be done very infrequently.

 

[Ekolite]

yh its always painful losing a hero. btw has anyone ever seen the ai have a religious hero? AFAIK i haven't.

 

[Silverkiss]

yh its always painful losing a hero. btw has anyone ever seen the ai have a religious hero? AFAIK i haven't.

I have, not in 0.30 though (not many games played yet)

Yeah but I think whether they are evil or good or w/e is partly defined by whether they are against the compact. Its just what side they're on in the angel war thing isn't it?

Nope, the Compact was signed after the war started, so the the Angels where already divided into Good/Neutral/Evil. I think it goes as much as the Evil ones are the ones who envy The One and want the power to create (aka Agares and the lot), the Good ones are the ones "protecting" The One, trying to stop the baddies, and the Neutrals are the ones who side with neither, wanting to protect Creation as it is until The One returns. I don't remenber if it's exactly that, but it's something along these lines, I think.

 

[westamastaflash]

As fas as I know slavery in Shadow avalible for evil civs only.

It works for neutral civs also. Lanun + Slavery = Lots of Hammers