All AI Opponents Are Aggressive Challenge Take Two

ratrangerm

Prince
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
380
Location
Raton, NM
OK, so for those who followed my previous "All AI Opponents Are Aggressive Challenge," my latest post that I updated after picking up where I left off explained that things weren't going well and that my mistakes from the first challenge cost me dearly. So now, I'm doing this again under mostly the same parameters, with one exception... now I'm playing a Fractal map.

Peter is my leader, the opponents are Alexander, Genghis Khan, Huayna Cupac, Montezuma, Napoleon and Tokugawa.

Here is the starting position, FYI.



And the saved game is attached for those who want to shadow my second take. I am going to move my Settler one square south and settle there so the Stone will be in my borders along with the Corn that can be seen. I'll play for a little bit until I get to the point of building my second city and provide an update then.

Wish me luck... and that I've learned my lessons from the first challenge.
 
My first suggestion is that you've enough information at this point to sketch out the basic themes of your opening: what are your techs, what are your traits, what character does the map suggest for your starting position, and how are you going to weave all of these together.

As you gather additional information, the plan will adapt, of course. But having a plan, against which you can compare your choices ("I can research Shiny Tech! oh, but it doesn't match my plan, maybe I should wait"), will help keep your opening coherent.
 
Round One: 4000 BC to 2260 BC

As stated in the first post, I moved the Settler one square south and founded there.



My first task was to build an additional Scout to help with exploration, and my first tech to research was Bronze Working.

The initial Scout bagged me quite a bit of gold from a couple of huts he found... and with the two huts that my border pop uncovered, I had 246 gold in my treasury. Nice to have that to allow my research to churn along at 100 percent for quite some time.

My city grew to size two just as my Scout was finished, which allowed me to work two tiles for my Worker.



I figured working the unimproved Stone was fine... I'm not looking to get a lot of growth out of Moscow just yet. My plan is to use the Worker to chop forests for my initial Warrior, with the overflow finishing a second Warrior, then I'll chop two forest squares for the first three Settlers I build. In between, I'll improve the Corn.

And as far as who my neighbors are on this land I have, it's becoming deja vu.





Yep, Monty and Alex are both here. Now I'll definitely need to watch my play carefully.

My second Scout met an untimely demise, as he walked straight into a Barbarian Warrior... and one who apparently had taken out somebody else's unit, as it was promoted to City Raider I. Needless to say, my second Scout didn't get to do much exploration.



Fortunately, my initial Scout never got attacked as he was able to avoid animals and that barbie.

Bronze Working was then discovered, but alas, no Copper to be found. I've said before that Fractal maps tend to be like this, with Copper not being easy to find. Nonetheless, I have forest to chop, so all was not lost. I enabled Slavery and went with Agriculture as my next tech so I can farm the Corn.

And then I learned I have a third neighbor as well, but unlike my first attempt at this challenge, it isn't Toku.



Napoleon shouldn't be too hard to deal with early on... he becomes a bigger threat by midgame, though.

Worker was finished and the Warriors came next. Agriculture was discovered, I went with Animal Husbandry next so I can locate Horses.

Monty then founded Buddhism. It would certainly help if that spread to my lands, as it would make it easier to decide who to make my friend initially.

With AH discovered, I decided to go for Masonry so I can at least improve the Stone square. Once the forest is all chopped, I can use the extra hammers

As for Horses, guess where they showed up.



Yep... had I not moved the Settler, they would have been in my fat cross. Oh well... another border pop will come and then I can get the Horses at least in my territory.

Settler was completed in 2260 BC, and that brings us to this point.

Here's the map as I know it.



And a dot map in which I've plotted out three initial cities.



City No. 1 is definitely next... I get Cows and Rice along with forested hills in the initial square, and a border pop will add some grassland along the river. Could work as a production city initially, then become a commerce city with a border pop to the BFC.

Cities No. 2 and No. 3 are not definite in that order. City No. 2 would claim two Ivory squares but not much else. It would have to be a production city for sure, with the Grassland river squares getting farmed.

City No. 3 gets an Oasis and Gold in its initial square and Cows with a border pop. And when I get Calendar, there will be Bananas to work. Desert and Peaks are an issue, but with Iron Working, the jungle can be cleared and perhaps cottaged up for a commerce city.

I don't have any other city locations marked yet, but there are some possible sites. To the north is a lot of jungle territory, but there's Bananas, Gems and Sugar to be had. Uncovering some of the coastline will help, but it looks like just north of Moscow is a definite candidate for a commerce city, and further east where all that Sugar is would be an ideal GP Farm.

There's a filler city spot to the south of Moscow, which would claim Corn, Sheep and Fish. That can wait until later, though.

It would be tempting to chase that spot south of City No. 2 which would give me Marble, Horses and Sheep, but that can probably wait as well.

Looks like I'll have to see if Buddhism spreads to my lands once I get Open Borders signed with Monty... if that happens, he'll be the one to make my friend. Alex would then most likely be my first target.

Any thoughts about Wonders to pursue? I'm tempted to go for the Pyramids, given that I have Stone. Keeping it away from the others would prevent, for example, Monty switching to Police State and becoming a real problem early on, even if Buddhism spreads to my lands.

Finally, there comes the matter of techs. The choices that could come into play:

* The Wheel, so I can build roads, and also to research Pottery and build Granaries in the cities in which we plan to whip out units.
* Writing, so as to get Open Borders signed early. I know where Alex and Nappy have their lands, just need to find Monty.
* Mysticism, to get border pops via Obelisks.
* Iron Working, so we can clear jungle where potential city sites await.

I'm debating between Writing, Iron Working and The Wheel to research next. Iron Working would be useful to know where Iron is (given the lack of copper), we definitely need Wheel for roads to hook up the Horses (although the border pop will take a while), and Writing would get Open Borders going. Pottery, while fitting into playing to Peter's strengths, probably isn't as important at this time. Mysticism could wait a while... City No. 1, at least, will be fine without a border pop, and City No. 2, assuming I go that route, will have Grassland squares along the river that can be farmed and one Ivory square to be camped.

Saved game is attached.
 
Peter Traits just scream Specialist Economy, Phil for 100% GP and Exp for the extra health allowing more Specialist to be Supported. Since you don't build Cottages except in your capital to cover maintainance cost therefore your Aggressive AI opponents pillaging tactics are less painful.

I'm not sure what difficulty level your playing So I'll just throw in a few ideas.

You have Stone so Building and Chopping the Pyramids is an option. Although if you decide those hammers are bettered used for other things... Going for Oracle Slingshot to Metal Casting, Build a Forge for a Engineer Specialist and Popping a GE To Rush Pyramids is also available.
 
I'd go for a rice + elephant city. Your city n°2 doesn't have enough food to be of any use.
A third city which would be OK in a specialist economy is a fish + corn + sheep city.
It's certainly not going to be the biggest of cities, but 3 food resources will allow a lot of specialists (use the whip early on to give it some infra).
After the settler, going for pyramids is a strong move IMHO. Quarry the stone, start chopping.
 
General comment: it sounds like you are thinking in prizes instead of plans.

Example of a plan: "I'm going to race as quickly as I can to Cossacks, take over the continent, then turtle up behind a navy and race to space".

Now when you reach a decision, you have something to use to answer it: you make the choice that brings MT to you the earliest.

Peter is philosophical, so you certainly want to take a run at the Great Library. That suggests either going after the marble, or trying to arrange an Engineer - the engineer will also allow you to place the GL where you want it, without having to worry about production levels.

The pyramids will help produce the engineer pyramids allow representation which will kick in extra research for the specialists that your traits will encourage you to run. The stone accelerates the pyramids. Since you'll be wanting to deliver the engineer on time, you want to avoid the temptation to use the stone for stonehenge - though you might build part of it for the gold.

You'll also want to be careful about running scientists... If you pop a scientist in your pyramids city, you've "wasted" those engineering points. The engineer appears 25 turns after the pyramids complete, and 50 turns after if you pop a GP somewhere else first... so it may make sense to rush a great scientist in a second city, then build an academy in the capital (truth be told, I'm not sure how quickly Literature falls after the Pyramids go up...)

Given that you are picking up all those techs anyway, you may want to sneak the Hanging Gardens next to the pyramids (you'll build it, rather than rushing it, of course).



From this position, you've got the corn, and bronzeworking, which are your immediate needs in the capital (which is going to be working on production for a while). You don't need the stone hooked up until the capital is done building settler(s), so you don't need to rush the Wheel or Iron Working.

So look a bit longer term... Your first city is in the right neighborhood, and you have everything you need there. Where's city number 3? My choice is just north of Moscow. It will borrow the corn when Moscow doesn't need it (Bureacracy + Cottages), and gets those lovely gem mines as well.

My (theoretical) placement of city number 1 is actually one tile south of yours. I want the hills and the food bonuses, but I can't resist the temptation of city number 4: there's an 8 hills, 4 food bonus cluster in the burried in the jungle just to the north of city one. 25 hammers per turn, base, in the classical era... Yowza. Add a barracks and the heroic epic, and you may not need to wait until Cossacks before you take over the continent. In the closing minutes, you'll be looking at 67 base hammers per turn.

In this plan, I want to arrange to get Ironworking done as soon as I can. City 1 can squat with no culture for a while, but the gems are out of reach, so I'll need to have some culture in pocket by the time that settler is ready.


I'm not looking to get a lot of growth out of Moscow just yet.

Um, look somewhere else? Seriously, growth rules. Popping a settler may be a better choice than chopping it.

My plan is to use the Worker to chop forests for my initial Warrior, with the overflow finishing a second Warrior, then I'll chop two forest squares for the first three Settlers I build. In between, I'll improve the Corn.

And maxing out production to get warriors built? questionable. The idea of chopping trees is to get the things you need produced as quickly as possible, rather than to spend hammers as quickly as you can.

I'd also be strongly considering using City 1 (with the rice, cows, and hills) to be doing the lifting of building settlers 2 and 3, so that Moscow can concentrate on the Pyramids.
 
@kniteowl
The difficulty level I'm playing is Prince. A Specialist Economy would definitely be interesting... I've never run that before, so it would be fun to give a shot. As far as pursuing the Pyramids, it would most likely be a straight build to it. To get to Oracle, I'd have to grab three techs I don't have yet (Mysticism, either Meditation or Polytheism, then Priesthood) and that means putting off other needed techs, so Oracle is not likely to be an option

@cabert
Rice and elephant would be nice. I'd have to look close at the map again and continue marking up the dotmap to see if it would be necessary to build an Obelisk or not. Only thing is, I do believe I'd miss out on forest to chop, which means we lose that if I put Pyramids in Moscow and assign the second city to building the next wave of Settlers.

And good point about the Corn/Sheep/Fish city being good for specialists.

@VoU
My long term plan is to take over the continent, and yes, racing to MT and Cossacks is in that plan. Ideally, though, I'd want to take at least one neighbor out before getting to MT, given Alex and Monty are both nearby. Since those two tend to keep building a lot of units, they could be a problem if left unchecked for too long. As for possible victories, I'm thinking either domination or space victories are in the cards (cultural doesn't play to Peter's strengths, diplomatic isn't likely to be in the cards with all aggressive opponents).

As far as the short term stuff goes, it's basically sorting out what is most useful right now. Whiteowl's suggestion about a specialist economy means that the short term path is clearer, so Pyramids should come ASAP (need Representation to run an SE). I'm thinking you're right that Moscow should switch to Pyramids as soon as I get Masonry.

Given your suggestion about putting Pyramids in Moscow, then it looks like Wheel should come after Masonry (the Stone isn't by the river so Roads are needed for access) and then follow with Iron Working so then cities could be located in the jungle to the north.

Question to follow from that: Since Moscow would be the site for Pyramids, what should the build be for Moscow until Masonry is researched? I'm thinking another Worker would be good, while my first Worker finishes the farm on the Corn, then goes to build a Quarry when I get Masonry, then starts the Roads so Moscow can access the Stone. By the time the second Worker is finished, then the Pyramids can get underway. City No. 2 could then take over Warriors and Settlers for future cities.

Is there a trick to ensure that a particular city square in one city's BFC will go the BFC for another city? It may not be absolutely necessary to put the Corn in City No. 3's radius (there's spots it can be placed where it would include either Bananas or Sugar) but I'm just curious if there's a method to how that works.

I'll sit down when I get home from work and look closer at the map to figure out where cities could go, then draw up a new dotmap. Probably won't get to the next round for a couple of days.
 
OK, here's an updated dot map... this is assuming the second city isn't moved from the spot I marked, VoU's suggestion for the third city, and simply adding the spot for that Sheep/Corn/Fish city... while it's marked "4" it isn't going to be built as the fourth city in succession, but is simply marked because it's known a city will go there eventually.

Other spots have been marked with question marks as to possible sites where resources can be grabbed. The situation will certainly shake itself out better once I get IW and know where Iron is.

Rather than upload it somewhere and throw it into the post, I just put it up as an attachment.

Now, if I do take VoU's thought for moving the second city one square south, that could open the door to place a city amidst all that Sugar and Hills, with Bananas on top of that. It's certainly something to consider.

Any other thoughts or were there potential sites that may have been missed?
 
My long term plan is to take over the continent, and yes, racing to MT and Cossacks is in that plan. Ideally, though, I'd want to take at least one neighbor out before getting to MT, given Alex and Monty are both nearby.

Given that these guys have unique units that are scheduled ahead of you, you'll want to consider that timing carefully. Construction is only one tech off of your beeline, and will be especially useful if you manage to get some elephants built.

Question to follow from that: Since Moscow would be the site for Pyramids, what should the build be for Moscow until Masonry is researched? I'm thinking another Worker would be good, while my first Worker finishes the farm on the Corn, then goes to build a Quarry when I get Masonry, then starts the Roads so Moscow can access the Stone. By the time the second Worker is finished, then the Pyramids can get underway. City No. 2 could then take over Warriors and Settlers for future cities.

Another worker would be a good piece; as soon as that settler plants you'll have two under developed cities. Note that Moscow has three sizes to grow here, and given that the pyramids will take time, arranging your citizens to get up to size may be more effective than

Is there a trick to ensure that a particular city square in one city's BFC will go the BFC for another city? It may not be absolutely necessary to put the Corn in City No. 3's radius (there's spots it can be placed where it would include either Bananas or Sugar) but I'm just curious if there's a method to how that works.

Yes there is. Go to the city view of the city that you want to have access to the tile. If the tile is lit, then this city has control of it. If the tile is NOT lit, a single click on the tile will light it up. The governor (if it is running) will immediately take it into consideration, or you can assign citizens to it by hand.

A quick comment on the dot map - it wasn't clear to me what you intended the white square to represent, but don't lose track of the fact that being on the river will offer some benefits (especially if you drop a city there before you've managed to clear all the jungle away).
 
I made some revisions to the dotmap. Here's the new one.



1. Moscow, just for the purpose of designating it as City No. 1 to avoid confusion.
2. I took VoU's suggestion to move it one tile south of the original spot. What convinced me is that now it's possible to chain farms to the plains squares in the western part of the BFC. It will still get the Rice and Cow in its initial city square and, over time, will have good potential as a production city.
3. The Gems city as planned. This might be the top candidate for the Science city. Working the Corn and the two Gems squares, then tossing in the Bananas once Calendar is acquired means I could get the city to run two Science specialists, then pop the Great Library with a GE for two more. Then as the city passes happiness thresholds, it can work coast tiles for commerce.
4. VoU's dream city. ;) Combining all those hills with the multiple Sugar squares, Bananas and grassland along river will be great for production.
5. Now, this site may be pushed back or may not be claimed at all depending on where Alex expands. But I can't pass up the Gold there and there's Bananas and an Oasis available. If necessary, it can be moved one square west and still be a solid city site.
6. The Ivory city. I suspect that there's one strategic resource there that hasn't been revealed... not counting on it as definite, though, which is why I put this at 6 for now. If Iron is there, then it takes higher priority.
7. The city site that will eventually come... not high priority, but should certainly be filled in later.

I didn't designate that Marble/Sheep/Horse spot because I need to explore that area more to see exactly where the coast is. I certainly don't want to follow the AI's habit of founding cities one tile from the coast (although it wouldn't surprise me to see Alex do that if he expands in that direction).
 
Round 2: 2260 BC to 865 BC

Well, this round I ended up with some good news and some bad news. That comes at the end of things, though, and no, the game is not lost... just that one of our plans will not be happening at this time.

First of all, a mere turn after my Settler was completed, I learned somebody had founded Hinduism.

It wasn't long after that when I founded my second city, St. Petersburg, taking advantage of the Cow and Rice.



And a couple turns later, I got Masonry... and also found out that it's not just me and three others on this continent.



So now we have four neighbors to contend with. No, that's not the bad news, although having more folks in contact with each other on the same continent means it will be a bit trickier to handle diplomacy.

Soon after, my Worker was completed, and then I immediately went to building the Pyramids. It started out as a build that would be completed in 255 turns... but that would be cut down considerably soon enough.

Because then I acquired an important tech, The Wheel. And the timing was that my research finished just as my Worker completed the Quarry.

Another development occurred that would be a boost to the empire.



The border expansion not only puts those Horses in my territory, but ensures City No. 3 will get them in its border. That will help with production until Jungle can be cleared and the Gems mined.

And what you will learn next will make you say "Are you sure this is a Fractal map?"



So we essentially got a larger Pangaea map. On one hand, this means naval warfare won't be that big of an issue, but on the other hand, diplomacy will be put to the test.

Mysticism was acquired next (I chose that so City No. 3 can first build an Obelisk, since the Gems won't be claimed without a border pop) and then I went to Iron Working.

I hadn't met the guy who founded Hinduism, but with five folks roaming these lands, I knew it was a matter of time before I met said founder.



Since he's Hindu, that means we have one guy who won't be friends with Monty.

St. Pete completed its first Warrior, then another Settler for city No. 3. I then cracked the whip on the final turn of the next Warrior to speed up production of the next Settler.

City No. 3 (Novgorod) was founded in the planned spot.



And an obelisk was its first build.

My two Workers stayed busy... all the forest around Moscow was chopped, the Cow and Rice by St. Pete were improved and the Horses were improved and hooked up.

Now, first of all, the good news... the same turn we got a key tech...



We claimed a goody we had been chasing...



Having smiled at this good fortune, I checked up on things, planning to end my turn here...

...and this is where the bad news comes.



Napoleon has just snatched VoU's dream city location right out from under our noses. :mad: :cry: No doubt he wants those Horses nearby, but I figured he'd try to go further to the north. Looks like target No. 1 is now known.

Here the map of Russia's area.



So now some decisions have to be made... City No. 4's original spot is gone, and Iron isn't particularly placed well.

Looking at the map, there's Iron to the south of St. Pete and the Clam nearby. I don't know how viable it will be for a city site, though. That Warrior that was fogbusting originally will head south soon enough to see what's there.

The Gold/Oasis/Banana city is still an option, but notice that Iron in the desert... just out of reach of that BFC. Same with the Ivory... trying to claim that Iron and Ivory together would lead to an even poorer city site.

That being said, with Napoleon getting closer to my borders, he's going to become a problem sooner than anybody else. That means we need Iron for certain if the plan is to attack Napoleon as soon as possible and feasible (and the Ivory would also be helpful to get War Elephants).

Tech wise, I'm starting Pottery next. I think that should come before Writing so I can get Granaries in cities first, then get the Libraries up and running. If people think it should be reversed, I can do so easily enough. Also bear in mind that the Workers have nothing to do around Moscow, and Cottages will be needed there. Regardless of the order I pick between Pottery and Writing, I know after that it will be time to beeline to Literature.

I haven't switched to Representation but will do so as I begin the next round... true, there's no specialists available yet, but having the happiness boost will allow me to let the cities grow without worries about happiness thresholds being exceeded for a while.

So here's what needs to be decided as the next round begins:

* Where does City No. 4 go now? Check that Iron to the south of St. Pete? Go for the Gold/Oasis/Banana site? Try to make the Ivory site work?
* What should come next in the tech line, Pottery followed by Writing, or reverse the order?
* Is it apparent that Napoleon needs to be the first target? Bear in mind, with plans to run an SE, we'll need to engage in warfare at some point to keep money coming into the treasury.
* Given that we need Iron at some point to get the army built, how should we work that in? (This could be answered by what is discovered by uncovering what else is there near that Iron south of St. Pete.)

Saved game is attached, now let's hear from the floor.
 
Just one criticism :
whipping for a warrior on the last turn before completion to get overflowon a settler is a bad move : you only have 15 hammers overflow, and the pop you lost won't regrow while you build the settler. It's very likely that you lost more hammers (from the pop not working, since he is dead) than you won.

IMHO it's time to get a few libraries and an Iron city, then all specialist city (sheep...) is up. You want to whip the library asap, then grow enough to have 2 scientists in ricecow and in sheepfish.
How many workers do you have?
 
Just one criticism :
whipping for a warrior on the last turn before completion to get overflowon a settler is a bad move : you only have 15 hammers overflow, and the pop you lost won't regrow while you build the settler. It's very likely that you lost more hammers (from the pop not working, since he is dead) than you won.

The pop that got whipped was working a plains square with no improvements. Until St. Pete gets a border pop, there's no squares to farm and just one hill to mine. Perhaps mining the hill would have been a good idea, although that means the Horses getting pastured and hooked up is delayed.

I did a little math, and it looked like I'd save one turn by building the settler, unless the idea would be to whip the Settler on the final turns with St. Pete at size 3 to claim that Sugar/Hills city site.

IMHO it's time to get a few libraries and an Iron city, then all specialist city (sheep...) is up. You want to whip the library asap, then grow enough to have 2 scientists in ricecow and in sheepfish.
How many workers do you have?

Going the library route first means switching to Writing. Pottery would come next, then, so we can build those Granaries and get the pop up faster.

Sending the Warrior south to see what is around that Iron to the south of St. Pete would then be the other task. As it looks right now, founding it on the desert next to the hill would be the best spot, but that means we'd need Fishing to work the Clam.

Looks like our whipping will mainly concentrate on getting Libraries out, then after that, those cities won't whip much, but our production city (the Iron city would be the one) would be whipping units.

As for Workers, I have two and plan to switch to a Worker once St. Pete finishes the Settler. If Novgorod finishes the Obelisk before Writing is discovered, I may start a Worker there, then can switch to a Library after that.

St. Pete will likely build the fourth Settler for our initial expansion phase, then it might build another Worker before going to a Library itself.
 
Round 3: 865 BC to 415 BC

Some tough decisions had to be made, and some tougher ones are yet to come.

First of all, I made some changes... I switched from Pottery to Writing as my next tech, and I switched to Representation. After coming out of anarchy, Novgorod finished its Obelisk and I started a Worker. I was able to move citizens around in Moscow so Writing would be researched the same time Novgorod finished its Worker, and could then start a Library.

Meanwhile, my Warrior uncovered more of what surrounded that hilltop Iron... not much, as it turns out.



I debated on whether or not to take this spot with the Clam nearby or try to work that desert Iron to the east. I decided that it wouldn't be worth going to the east given that its distance from the empire would result in more maintenance costs and lots of Worker time spent on building Roads. So I decided the best move was to found a city there, and thus Rostov was up and running.



I immediately went to building a Worker. Fishing would now have to go into the research queue so I could take advantage of the Clam.

It was about this time that somebody had founded Judaism... and that somebody was Napoleon. That fits into my plans, as now Nappy will no longer maintain his friendship with Huayna and Monty.

Writing was discovered and Pottery came next. It was long overdue for Moscow to be cottaged up.

Alex then came to me asking for Open Borders. I accepted... given Nappy's proximity to me, it's best to find others to become friends.

Which then reminded me that I'd like to have Monty on my good side for now, so I signed Open Borders with him. Now we'll wait and see if Buddhism will spread to me.

After Pottery was discovered, I took Fishing next so Rostov can get a Work Boat ASAP. It didn't take long (just three turns) and then Alphabet came next.

Then I got another surprise... turns out Nappy isn't the only guy who is in close proximity to me.



I can only surmise that Toku got stuck in a pretty isolated spot and has been forced to mix in with Nappy as a result... and it wasn't long after I found his city that Judaism spread to his lands. On one hand, could be a problem when I go after Nappy, but on the other hand, this means yet another guy who won't stay friends with Monty and Huayna for long.

As you can see, I had built a couple of Chariots in Moscow and sent them out to explore around my immediate territory. Barbie Archers are now emerging, so it was a good thing I had those Chariots.

I did spot the Jewish holy city... and it ended up getting another prize as well.



Orleans is truly going to be a juicy target once we go after Nappy.

With the other nearby civs expanding near me, I figured the best site for City No. 5 would be the Sheep/Corn/Fish site, so that's where Yaroslavl went.



I stopped here. Time to go over what's happening and figure out what comes next.

Here's the map of the area surroudning my lands.



Nappy has taken a good chunk of land and Toku is now moving in... he's got an Archer/Settler group looking for land.

Moscow just finished a Granary and is doing a Library. A Worker is cottaging up the lands there.

I have a Worker at St. Pete mining the grassland hill there... can't do much farming until a border pop happens. I have a Library going there to enable that.

Novgorod is building a Library and the Worker there is getting the Gems mined.

Iron near Rostov has been mined and hooked up and the Worker is now heading in Yaroslavl's direction to get the Corn and Sheep there worked. I assigned Yaroslavl to build a Worker, but If necessary, though, I can switch Yaroslavl to a Library instead.

Rostov is working the Iron as it builds its Work Boat, then I'll have it work the Clam when that's done and start a Barracks. From there, time to put together Axemen, Spearmen and Swordsmen.

Once Alphabet is researched, we'll make the rounds to see what tech trades would help, then head for Literature. The GE in Moscow will soon appear and I'll hold him in Novgorod until I can build Great Library there.

Points to ponder:
* What should come after Literature? I'm thinking Code of Laws is the best bet so Courthouses can go up.
* I'm still thinking Nappy is the best person to attack, but now I'm wondering if I should alternate between him and Toku. Those two are going to be buddies, so best to keep them both as weak as possible. We could also try bribing Monty to go after one while I take on the other... or perhaps Alex could be bribed.

Saved game is attached, thoughts certainly welcome here.
 
If your deciding to go for a SE... You should go search some articles on the SE in the forum and read them.

You'd want to choose a Super Science City where you'll assign all your Science Specialist (includes GL) and most of your GS Super Specialist. Hope it's a city with Food Surplus and plenty of room for growth in the future.

Another Question is are you gonna Switch to Cast System once you research COL?

I'd Prefer to stay in Slavery so I Still have the ability to whip Infasturcture and units.

If you stay with slavery you will not have any control over which Great People will be born and will have to adapt your strategy to the Great Person.

Since you are limited to how many specialist you can assign if you stay with slavery you'll have to beeline to techs that allow you buildings that allow you to assign specialist eg - Drama, Currency, Guilds

If you Switch to cast system you don't need to beeline to those techs and have control over which Great Person you want born but it will take longer for you to build your infastructure because you can't whip.
 
@ VoU: Yeah, Oracle isn't much when you capture it. That being said, the fact that it's a Holy City makes it a good target regardless, and if Napoleon doesn't build the Jewish shrine, then we have the city where it can be easily generated.

@ kniteowl: I experimented a bit with the SE on a Warlord level game. I used Caste System there and it was highly effective. Of course, on the higher levels, Slavery proves more useful given the ability to whip. My thought is that I should stick with Slavery so that I can get an army put together, and as I reach each era, evaluate the situation and decide whether Slavery or Caste System works better.

Ideally, we should be running Caste in the late game when techs get more expensive. But I'm thinking, while we're putting our army together, we need to stick with Slavery.

Oh, and Novgorod is the candidate for the Super Science City. It's working Corn, will eventually get Banana, plus Grassland along the river for farming and two Gems squares. Given that we have Banana, Calendar will be a priority tech. I might be able to trade for it, though, but we'll see how things develop.
 
OK, if there's nothing else to add or suggest, I'm going to try to play the next round Tuesday night. Updates might be slow the coming week as I have some work-related things to do that I've been procrastinating about.
 
Grrr... I'm gonna sound like a broken record from the last time I tried this challenge:

Long story short: Plan was being executed well, but then along comes Alex, declaring war and he has two Combat III Axemen heading toward Novgorod. Meaning even if I whipped an Axeman or two to counter, odds are not in my favor (no Barracks in Novgorod means no veteran units there).

I would still like to make this challenge work, but I think it will be better to do that by discussing with everyone a general plan of action of (a) balancing out the traits of the civ I choose, (b) knowing that we need to priortize tech based on the land I start with and (c) handling the opponents when they are all aggressive, particularly if it's another fractal map that ends up being a giant pangaea.

I'll start another thread later on.
 
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