All Leaders Challenge Game 19: Sumer/Gilgamesh

[...] Partly it's that you do need a respite between wars to restore your economy; but once you do, all these shiny new buildings and wonders become available and it's easy to get distracted. I also get my own personal version of war weariness sometimes and then go into builder mode.

The other problem is "one more tech" syndrome--you know, where if I can just get Engineering for pikes and trebs, or Machinery for Xbows, or whatever, then I'll have the advantage I need to go to war. [...]

I do SO know what you mean! :) It is encouraging to read that far better players than I consider myself suffer from the same things. I also got the "one more unit"-syndrome. But my coping gets better from game to game.

Well done match I have to say, interesting to read. I'd love to see a really good late game war or some naval performance in one of your games.
 
There is an easy way to get out of the 1 more unit / 1 more tech syndrome :
when you decide to go to war, you write down what you want to send in your first attack wave.
At the moment you got it, you declare. It doesn't prevent you from building reinforcements, but you're at war from this point.

In general, when I say go to war with xxx, I say with what kind of army too.
I clearly remember the mongol ALC, where I suggested attacking brennus with a stack of 6 axemen.

When you know exactly what army you want, there is no excuse for not declaring. Of course, if you see your opponent getting ready for war while you build up, you certainly need to reevaluate your needs ;).
 
The real luck, imo, was having Shaka on the other continent. Without him and his insane warmongering, both Hannibal and Cyrus likely would have been seriously contenders for a Space Race victory. Of course, they would also have been much easier candidates for a naval invasion, so I guess that balances out.

Bh

On the other hand I think a Diplo victory would have been easier in that case, with Sisiutil's dominant land and population.

I played a shadow game from the earlier part of the Washington war. In that game Cyrus did not vassalize to Shaka, and while I was building to space I got a diplo semi-accidentally from Hannibal's UN and Washington's (vassal) votes plus Cyrus's.

Another thing I wanted to say about the shadow game is that Police State was a net win. I didn't make peace and just shut off research and hung on to Washington by my teeth. Even with Police State, WW was up to something like +4 by the end. HR could not have competed with that, and the Culture slider with Theatres and Colosseums was not sufficient for it. Apart from WW and having to build commerce at the end to avoid striking, the war concluded fine, with Sumeria controlling the middle and east coast (enough to grab the Fur afterwards) and Washington capitulating with the gift of New York.
 
cabert, did shaka nuke you or did you not get that far?
 
cabert, did shaka nuke you or did you not get that far?

I bet than cabert tried a landing in Shaka's continent and he was completely Shaka'ed ( read : swarmed by waves of mounted ( or gunship ) troops and and ex-impi infantry..... )
 
cabert, did shaka nuke you or did you not get that far?

I bet than cabert tried a landing in Shaka's continent and he was completely Shaka'ed ( read : swarmed by waves of mounted ( or gunship ) troops and and ex-impi infantry..... )

I didn't even declare war.
It's just that taking over such a large empire and switch to war mode at this point was too much work.
When my computer crashed, I didn't have the will to start again.:blush:
I played what, 5 turns maybe?

I venged myself in an other emperor game where I nuked gilgamesh :D .
 
There is an easy way to get out of the 1 more unit / 1 more tech syndrome :
when you decide to go to war, you write down what you want to send in your first attack wave.
At the moment you got it, you declare. It doesn't prevent you from building reinforcements, but you're at war from this point.

In general, when I say go to war with xxx, I say with what kind of army too.
I clearly remember the mongol ALC, where I suggested attacking brennus with a stack of 6 axemen.

When you know exactly what army you want, there is no excuse for not declaring. Of course, if you see your opponent getting ready for war while you build up, you certainly need to reevaluate your needs ;).

Big thanks for that tip; I usually fall into the same trap, so I'll try to apply it next time :)

Perhaps in my actual game in fact, I have a sneaky feeling that Napoleon must diiiiie :mischief:
 
I second the suggestion that Ragnar be played on a different kind of map - either archipalegeo or snaky big and small continents. It would add a fresh flavor to this particular ALC and make it possible to feature the UU and UB more.

But if you give yourself the Ragnar-friendly map should you also try Immortal to keep it challenging?:eek:
 
It doesn't have to be Immortal... it could be Always War or some other option (anyone got any ideas?).
 
I second the suggestion that Ragnar be played on a different kind of map - either archipalegeo or snaky big and small continents. It would add a fresh flavor to this particular ALC and make it possible to feature the UU and UB more.

But if you give yourself the Ragnar-friendly map should you also try Immortal to keep it challenging?:eek:

It doesn't have to be Immortal... it could be Always War or some other option (anyone got any ideas?).

I'm leaning towards Aggressive AI to even things out/make things interesting this time.
 
Yeah I've only played archipelago once, back in vanilla. My guess would be that the AI'll need immortal bonuses just to keep pace with it's severely limited war capability. Perhaps you should handpick the civs and make them all naval???

My guess is that aggressive AI will stunt the AI's tech rate even further but once again It's been a minute since i used either of those settings. Maybe Aggresive AI will lead to bigger stacks in cities and give your naval SoD a challenge.
 
I'm leaning towards Aggressive AI to even things out/make things interesting this time.


The Aggressive AI really makes a difference IMO, especially if you're looking at a protective AI as a rival. There will be no shortage of units in the capital.

As for the SOD coming at you, have some crossbows ready.
 
Yeah I've only played archipelago once, back in vanilla. My guess would be that the AI'll need immortal bonuses just to keep pace with it's severely limited war capability. Perhaps you should handpick the civs and make them all naval???

My guess is that aggressive AI will stunt the AI's tech rate even further but once again It's been a minute since i used either of those settings. Maybe Aggresive AI will lead to bigger stacks in cities and give your naval SoD a challenge.

Agg/Ai means SoD's like the good ole days, and lots of AI wars. It can be a bloodbath on most maps. Civs are harder to predict and will war with you much sooner than you think.
 
Yeah but the AI sucks at naval invasions as we all know, so is the only real difference going to be the defensive stacks we encounter? And won't that drop it behind in tech?
 
I played out the domination win from the last save (the one after uniting the continent). It actually didn't take too long (about 5 hours?).

Spoiler :

My plan was simple - take out Shaka without using nukes. Shaka had a huge production lead and I didn't want to deal with nukes. To be safe, I researched laser first to enable SDI in case Manhattan was built. Fortunately, Manhattan was never built.

I first started by declaring war on Shaka about 10 turns after picking up the save. I figured I had enough of a navy to repel any coastal invasion and I wanted to take out his vassals first to prevent any cheap diplo shortcuts. I went after Cyrus with the northern stack - the highly promoted CR infantry/maces made quick work of all the northern islands. They weren't the greatest cities but I wanted to reduce his land holdings so that he'd unvassalize. Lo and behold, he became free after I took all the northern islands - I took peace with him to take him out of the war picture.

I then went after Hannibal's island colonies. This was also pretty easy as marines destroy infantry with a little artillery support. I sent a stack of 6 transports filled with marines to raze his coastal core cities and he too, broke free. About this time, Shaka landed his first naval stack and took out one of the minor east coast cities. The stack didn't move too far though, and I took it out with some tanks that were moving around.

Flight was very useful, and I tried a run at the radio wonders as well but I was beaten to Cristo. Oh well, I had 2 GP to trigger a GA for the civic switch. I stayed in representation until WW crept in, at which point I triggered the GA to go into police state. I was also busy spamming mining inc. into every city - I didn't spread Sid's Sushi though. I just wanted the extra hammers. Big cities would just add maintenance without adding much production (the key at this point in a late game war). My marine stack was busy sailing around Shaka's continent razing all of his coastal cities. I ended up taking out all the eastern ones before I ran out of marines. But by then, my boats had reached Cahokia and threatened Hannibal's last good city.

I vassalized Hannibal after reducing him to a few island colonies (south of his mainland) and Cahokia. I airlifted a bunch of mech infantry into his city and promoted them to CG 2/3. Then I turtled there while I built up the necessary tech. Shaka was still teching faster than me since I was going all production - he beat me to modern armor and stealth bombers by quite a bit but he was never able to take down Cahokia. sitting Bull went down easy - he took all of 4 turns (1 turn attack, 1 heal, attack, heal - oh wait that's only 3...).

I then gradually moved northward. Since I don't play with Bhruic's patch, I loaded Cahokia full of jet fighters and left them on intercept for a while to take out Shaka's air force. I think at max, I had upwards of 20+ jet fighters orbiting. The one scare I got late in the game was when Shaka launched his spaceship. I had 10 turns to take out his capital so I sent all of my military northward. He had actually launched his SS without all 5 thrusters - I guess he was starting to worry :lol:

Eventually I took out Ulundi and destroyed his SS. I then mopped up his remaining cities - I had to reduce him to 2 cities before vassalizing him for domination. Here are some pics of the war effort:

The SoD when I first went northward from Cahokia:
Civ4ScreenShot0036.jpg


Shaka's SS failure:
Civ4ScreenShot0038.jpg


score graph:
Civ4ScreenShot0039.jpg

It's funny that Hannibal had a higher score than Cyrus even though he was still a vassal!

power graph:
Civ4ScreenShot0040.jpg


production:
Civ4ScreenShot0042.jpg


You can see where I adopted state property. I had massive colony expenses (about 400+) so I tried swapping out of state property after I conquered the Cristo. However, it only bumped the slider by 10% so I turned back to free market the next turn to keep the mining inc. hammer bonus. I spammed mining inc. to all of my and Hannibal's cities so it was worth lots of $$ and :hammer: Even the island colonies were able to produce a few buildings! I definitely have new found respect for mining inc.

And the kill count:
Civ4ScreenShot0043.jpg


The final score was a little over 40k.

I think it was a wise decision to not use nukes. Shaka built the UN and I was voted secretary general (I had freed Cyrus at this point). My first (and only) order I passed was the banning of nukes. I could have won diplo a lot earlier but I figured I should wrap up with domination since that was the goal. Had I left nukes enabled, I think Shaka would have decimated my continent and I wouldn't have been able to recover. He would have reached ecology first which would have killed me.


And the save from the turn before domination:
 

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How is hampering the AI's tech rate going to make the game anymore interesting?
 
Agg AI hampers AI tech rate?
 
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