Aloha communication thread

[Lord Parkin]

I agree, it might be too early to try to arrange a fully-fledged militarily intentioned alliance.

 

[DaveShack]

The first line sounds too harsh to me. Have we talked with them about the danger we see in Epsilon to find out how they stand? I think going slow via a series of pacts of increasing importance would make a lot of sense.

 

[Theoden]

Response from Aloha:

Grettings theoden and Innovia

shortly we shall have construction and then music, we would be willing to trade both of these to you for feudalism if that suits you? the beaker differential is in your favour but we're happy to wave it by for our closest allies.

regards
bclg

Though I haven't checked the exact beaker costs this seems like a very good offer.

It seems diplomatic relations are developing rapidly with Aloha (I don't think they've called us their closest allies before), so if we accept this they'll probably come with more lucratice deals down the road.

 

[1889]

Construction (500), Music (858), Feudalism (1000) so ya thats a taker. Music seems like a strange choice to me. I suppose they want the free artist so they can lightbulb something.

Lets also reiterate that these techs are not to be traded to other teams. A little "we" vs. "they" thinking should tighten up our alliance.

 

[1889]

Or how about if we trade the techs to other teams we have to gift the proseeds to the team that did the original research.

So If we trade Music to Loco for Theology we would have to gift theology to Aloha.

 

[Lord Parkin]

A little hard to check up on or enforce though, isn't it?

 

[1889]

I'm not sure. We have contact with everyone so we should be able to see techs move around if they are traded. I think the trust but verify approach would work alright.

 

[Theoden]

I will mention the no-trading clause. I don't like the idea of gifting the benefits, from selling techs to third partys, to the other team. Instead we should just take it on a case by case basis, like when Aloha asked for permission to sell CS.

 

[1889]

One thing to consider though is that a no trading clause closes our alliance off and makes it hard to attrack more allies, where the gift clause allows Aloha to continue building its trade relationship with Piffle while including us in all the benefits.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Gifting clauses tend to lead to unwanted and unnecessary complications though, from my experience. IMHO it's better to take things on a case-by-case basis, like Theoden says.

 

[Theoden]

I responded this to Aloha:

We can certainly agree to that offer. However, we'd like to place a trading restriction on the techs, so that neither of us is allowed to trade the techs we receive to any other civs unless permission is given. Is that acceptable to you?

 

[dutchfire]

Response from Aloha

Hey there

We agree, it's vital to stop other teams from learning this knowledge quickly

regards
BCLG

 

[Theoden]

Chat with BCLG last night:

Spoiler :

Simon says:
Hey
Mikkel says:
hey
Simon says:
How goes things in the land of innovia?
Mikkel says:
great as always, i think
Simon says:
and you?
Mikkel says:
well, i'm rather overworked at the moment but ignoring that im fine as well
Simon says:
ah ok
Mikkel says:
i trust Aloha is doing fine also?
Simon says:
Yeah we're doing great i think, things ticking along very nicely after the HG has been built
Mikkel says:
yes, we saw your jump in GNP.. quite impressive
Simon says:
cheers, we recieved fuedalism from you guys did we not?
Mikkel says:
yes, i think so
Mikkel says:
and we got drama and something else
Simon says:
Ok well just that we have had an offer from epsilon for it
Simon says:
we've rejected it because of our agreement with you not to trade tech on without expressed permission
Simon says:
however we've also kept communication going to see if we can gain any information on what tech they have
Mikkel says:
thats good to hear
Mikkel says:
we are also comminicating with them to get as much info as possible
Simon says:
do you recieve an e-mail requesting a tech swap whenever a new one is researched pretty much?
Mikkel says:
i think, at least when we discover a tech epsilon doesnt have
Mikkel says:
they seem very eager to do trades and they have a hrad time doing it
Simon says:
yeah, however we think they do have a trading partner in piffle.
Mikkel says:
thats our suspicion as well... they've traded a lot of techs and seem to be researching different ones
Simon says:
Yeah, we were surprised because they managed to get machinery, philosophy and construction within a few turns
Simon says:
we also have reason to believe that piffle and epsilon have traded world maps
Mikkel says:
seems possible but why do you think that?
Simon says:
there was a conversation between one of our team mates and one of theirs which seemed to imply it
Mikkel says:
ah, okay
Mikkel says:
have you had any luck having any constructive negotiatoins with Loco?
Simon says:
lol
Simon says:
tbh we've sort of given up
Simon says:
we propose tech deals everynow and then
Mikkel says:
that's our stance as well.. lol
Simon says:
and they do likewise but nothing concrete
Mikkel says:
it just seems they are asking to be left in the cold... as they don't seem to be with epsilon
Simon says:
no- im not sure whether the team is very active tbh
Mikkel says:
probably.. and they don't seem to have many veterans
Simon says:
yeah we also noticed that-its unfortunate as they could be a big help if it came down to two teams vs the other two
Mikkel says:
true.. but that leads me to the conclusion that if they can't help as an ally they can help as a vassal
Simon says:
lol
Simon says:
menacing talk
Mikkel says:
well, just mean speculation
Simon says:
the problem with having a human vassel is
Simon says:
that human vassels can be proper arse's
Mikkel says:
okay, then better destroy them and use their resources... lol
Simon says:
yeah- thought im not sure aloha knows where they are tbh
Simon says:
think were still looking
Simon says:
mainly trying to find epsilon
Mikkel says:
funny.. id have though you would have known their location for a while
Mikkel says:
we're also looking for epsilon
Mikkel says:
maybe we ought to trade maps once either of us get paper
Simon says:
Ill definatly propose it
Simon says:
however if we do i think that we'd have to have a clause saying that either team must ask the other when trading maps in the future
Simon says:
We aim to have paper in a trade with piffle shortly
Mikkel says:
sounds good, ill propose it to my team as well

Summary: they had been offered a deal for feudalism by Epsilon but had refused it due to the trading restriction. They revealed that they will have paper soon and are positive towards a possible map trade. There's also lots of small info and insights into Aloha's situation, but you'll have to read it all for that.

 

[1889]

Big thumbs up on the map trade, I suppose Piffle will put a trade restriction on Paper though.

 

[dutchfire]

chatting with bclg at the moment

 

[dutchfire]

Simon zegt:
hey
- zegt:
hey
Simon zegt:
you busy?
- zegt:
not really
Simon zegt:
just wanted to talk about the mtdg a little
Simon zegt:
but didnt want to interrupt things
- zegt:
not a problem, fire away
Simon zegt:
hows things going over in innovia then?
- zegt:
pretty good, although I haven't checked the save lately
Simon zegt:
ah right well we were wondering if there was any way we could trade for philosophy?
- zegt:
last picture of the tradescreen that I've got says that we have philo on you, and you have theo on us, is that still correct?
Simon zegt:
yes iirc
- zegt:
philo is 800 beakers, theo 500
- zegt:
(I'll try to open the save to have a better look at things)
Simon zegt:
yup but we hope to obtain paper soon also and therefore if you were to research horseback riding then the beakers would even up
- zegt:
(save downloaded, opening civ)
- zegt:
that would require us to research hbr, I don't know if/when we'll do that, but it's an interesting suggestion
Simon zegt:
indeed-its not a huge tech to research and would only take up a few turns research time
- zegt:
what would you think of another deal, say philo(1140) for paper(858) and something else?
Simon zegt:
well it depends what really...
Simon zegt:
anything in mind?
- zegt:
I'm going to have a look at the techtree
Simon zegt:
just loading up the save now
- zegt:
I think philo for paper and hbr would be an even deal
Simon zegt:
hmmm researching hbr wasnt in our immediate plans
Simon zegt:
i'll propose it
- zegt:
i'll do the same in our teams thread
Simon zegt:
we think we've found epsilon land on our team now
- zegt:
interesting, where is it approximately? Any chance of an attack?
Simon zegt:
hmmm do you know where piffle is?
- zegt:
no, we only know where loco is, and where you are (our exploring warrior has just seen your borders a few turns ago)
- zegt:
it seems paper and maptrading will be usefull
Simon zegt:
yes, i think i spoke previously with theoden about map trading
Simon zegt:
the only way we could agree to trading maps would be if there was some form of agreement in the future about map trades
Simon zegt:
i.e. that the team has to check with the other team whether they can trade or not
- zegt:
naturally
Simon zegt:
but then when we obtain paper what could/would you be interested in trading for it?
- zegt:
for paper? of for the map?
Simon zegt:
paper
- zegt:
philo?
Simon zegt:
well we can only offer theology right now...
- zegt:
well, I don't know really, but I'm sure my teammates would be able to work out a good deal
- zegt:
it would be best to workout who research what next so the trade is even in the end
Simon zegt:
yeah, what are you on right now?
- zegt:
Guilds
- zegt:
and you? paper?
Simon zegt:
no we hope to get paper in a trade i believe
Simon zegt:
think right now we're off research whilst we debate what to do and also build up a stash so we can deficit research
- zegt:
okay
- zegt:
anyway, I've got to go now, I'll post this in our teams thread, and expect to see a message from us soon
- zegt:
bye

Philo + HBR for Paper and Theo?

 

[Lord Parkin]

Beaker costs of those respective techs?

My initial impression is that the trade looks like it could have potential, but I'm not certain.

 

[dutchfire]

Ehm, HBR + Philo = Paper + Theo
Philo > Paper

 

[dutchfire]

So, what are we going to do?

 

[1889]

HBR next for us. So we can do this trade in 4 or 5 turns. Shall we let them know?