Aloha Embassy

[General_W]

Thanks Peter!

We've got a split decision going...

Other input?

 

[DaveMcW]

Aloha has a galley approaching our borders soon. I don't think we want them using our canal cities.

 

[General_W]

oh yeah...

Don't know why I wasn't thinking of that.
that changes my mind on the Open Borders...

But what about another "Traders Only" open borders agreement like we have with Piffle?
I'd still like that for the trade and potential religion spread.

 

[peter grimes]

Canal cities - yup, that seals the deal. Vote NO on Prop OB!!

 

[Memphus]

oh yeah...

Don't know why I wasn't thinking of that.
that changes my mind on the Open Borders...

But what about another "Traders Only" open borders agreement like we have with Piffle?
I'd still like that for the trade and potential religion spread.

Until we have a symbol beside thier name we won't gain any trade / religion spread from Open Borders

 

[General_W]

Right – I totally understand that… but given the long delays we've experienced in dealing with Aloha, and given my assumption (maybe stupidly?) that'll we meet aloha in the next 10ish turns, I thought it might be smart to start negotiating now – so we can have a deal in place when the opportunity comes up.

Here's a rewording of the letter…

Hail Aloha!

Congratulations on the magnificent Hanging Gardens! A true wonder of the world befitting your great empire.

We wish to seek your opinion on 2 proposals to bring our people closer together.

#1) Traders-Only Open Borders! With your boat out sailing the seas, and with our recent launch of naval forces, it's only a matter of time till we meet, and can begin prosperous trade. However, given the understandable security concerns of both our nations, we'd like to advance the notion of a "Traders-Only" Open Borders agreement. In this kind of a deal, we'd sign an open borders deal, but no units can actually cross the other's borders without the other's express permission. Thus, trade can commence between our peoples – but the sanctity of our borders are preserved. We could sign this deal now, or wait till one of us catch's sight of the others borders.

#2) Trade for Feudalism. We noticed you recently learned the secret of Feudalism (700 ). Would you be interested in trading this knowledge for our deep secrets of Philosophy (800 )?

What do you say?
We eagerly await your reply.

Foreign Minister General W
Servant of the Leader
Epsilon Team!

How's that strike everyone?

EDIT: Sent to Aloha gmail 2/20/07 - title: "Congrats and More"

 

[Memphus]

I would leave out that we have ships in the water

But other than that looks great!

 

[General_W]

I see what you're getting at – and I really do appreciate all the feedback I get from you – but my motive on mentioning the ships was to blunt the impact of when (if?) we show up off their coast.

Does that make sense? … drag the surprise of seeing an Epsilon Boat out over a few turns to make it less shocking and therefore (hopefully) less likely to spark a negative overreaction.

Ie –
all in one turn: realizing that Epsilon has boats, not only boats but Caravels, and not only Caravels but have been exploring, and not only exploring but are now are right off their coast. (shock!)
VS
One turn: Epsilon has boats out and about (no great big shock)
Later Turn: Epsilon has a Caravel and is off our Coast. (A surprise, but not a shock)

Am I over analyzing?
If so, is that bad?


P.S. Also don't underestimate the value of "naval forces" in helping to deter talk of a naval invasion... who knows what is being discussed in the dark halls of power of AloVia.

 

[Memphus]

That's true...maybe we have frigates

Alright my position has changed, I am always up for good reasoning!

 

[General_W]

Allright - sweet

I think that about does it.
I'll send this off now.

Thanks to all for a great discussion - this letter is better now than where I started - go group effort!

 

[General_W]

Since I've upped the ante to Innovia, I propose rapidly sending out this note to Aloha…

Dear Aloha,

I wanted to follow up on our offer of Philosophy(800 ) for Feudalism(700 ) – since we haven't heard back, I'm assuming that means you're not rushing for your pens to sign the deal.

What if Epsilon were to up the ante by 50 ?
Would that sweeten the deal enough for you to be interested?

Either way, we'd appreciate it if you'd let us know as soon as you can – we've got some research decisions to make in the next few turns.

Thanks, and hope all is well in your Garden paradise!

- General_W

Thoughts?

EDIT: Sent 2/22/07 - to Aloha gmail - title "Feudalism Followup"

 

[General_W]

Per discussion in the Epsilon Foreign Ministry thread, I’m now sending this letter.

 

[General_W]

Well, at least Aloha wrote us back!

Greetings General W and epsilon's

We at Aloha we're very intrigued by your proposed deal however we must pass on the philosophy one as we are simply not interested right now in obtaining it, maybe if you had something else to offer?

About the open borders thing, we would prefer that scouting units (such as galleys etc) are allowed to pass through otherwise we see no real benefit in having open borders as we know where enough cities are to not require more cities to trade with.

Best Regards
BCLG

This is a pretty brave offer, given we have an explorer right on their border.

What do we think?
I'm torn... generally, I'd hate to allow anyone into our lands... but it might be worth it since we can get into theirs right away, and we have a chance of spreading our religion.

What does everyone think?

 

[Memphus]

Well, at least Aloha wrote us back!



This is a pretty brave offer, given we have an explorer right on their border.

What do we think?
I'm torn... generally, I'd hate to allow anyone into our lands... but it might be worth it since we can get into theirs right away, and we have a chance of spreading our religion.

What does everyone think?

Would have been good if I hadn't just moves the explorer away...

Given that They have no visible unit near us, and most likely without getting through thiers or Innovia's Borders we can't circumnavigate...I would say let the explorer head northWest for another turn (or 2 hopefully, maybe he will be headed back south again)and then respond to them (opening borders)


This brgins up anotehr point...woudl we be willing to trade a tech for a map?

Getting Aloha's Or innovia's world Map would give us the greatest chance or circumnavigation...

I would be willing to give up Philosphy for that. anyone else?

 

[General_W]

I would say let the explorer head northWest for another turn (or 2 hopefully, maybe he will be headed back south again)and then respond to them (opening borders)

I like that. Heaven knows we've waited long enough for answers from them.

Getting Aloha's Or innovia's world Map would give us the greatest chance or circumnavigation...

I would be willing to give up Philosphy for that. anyone else?

Hmm... I think I'd go for that. But maybe AFTER we're closer to education - to lower any risk of Great Scientist fueled run on Liberalism by AloVia.

EDIT: this would be extra great if we could get them both to agree to this on the same turn

 

[peter grimes]

eh, maybe. However, I can't imagine that either team would be so careless as to agree to that sort of trade.

But it wouldn't hurt to ask, at the very least.

I'm confused about how Aloha actually feels about open borders... after all, they didn't actually say they would sign them.

 

[General_W]

yeah - I agree - it is hard to imagine either team agreeing to that... but who knows? They seem less protective of our borders than we are. Maybe they'd think it was a good deal

No matter what - it can't hurt to ask. Let's see what our explorer finds next turn, and then we'll send a letter.

 

[General_W]

Here's a note I propose sending to Aloha…

Dear Aloha,

Thanks for writing us back, we're sorry a deal couldn't be worked out.

The Leader, may he live forever, is not quite ready to throw open the borders of Epsilon to foreign military powers – so we will regrettably have to decline any non-restricted open borders deal.

However – we do have an idea – we've noticed you've signed open borders with all the other nations, and so we hope it's not presumptuous to assume that you're less xenophobic in guarding your borders than our Dear Leader.

Would you be willing to sell us a right-of-passage through your lands (for our explorer) in exchange for Philosophy (800 )?
We could sign an open border agreement for just the minimum 20 turns, with the understanding that only our explorer would enter your borders, and you would continue to respect our borders. We could give you Philosophy right now, you would open your borders for 20 turns, and then snap them shut when our time is up.

Any interest in that deal at all?
We look forward to hearing your reply.

All the best to you,

Foreign Minister General_W
Servant of the Leader
Epsilon Team!

Thoughts? Comments?

We could try to buy their map for philosophy instead of 20 turns of passage, but I think they might be more willing to give us 20 turns (anyone disagree with that?) – also, the open borders deal gives us 20 turns of opportunity to potentially spread Confucianism into Aloha Land.

Please offer feedback on which way we should word the offer!
Thanks.

 

[DaveMcW]

I think they will be insulted by that offer.

There is no reason to sign open borders until we have a trade route established.

Even then, they will be reluctant to let us through if they don't get a similar chance to map our land.

 

[General_W]

- but Aloha has already said they DON'T want a trade route with us... "we know where enough cities are to not require more cities to trade with"

The open borders is just to allow our explorer though (with the possible fringe benifit of a religion spread)

I guess I don't see how 800 beakers for safe passage of 1 unit is insulting.
Do you think they'd be more likely to agree to just selling their map?