Alternate History NESes; Spout some ideas!

[Amenhotep7]

Who says the Romans are strong? Spain was a backwater to Islam, they didn't care. More important is why didn't they conquer Turkey... Or are the Ephesians Muslim?

So they conquered it OTL because..?

 

[North King]

So they conquered it OTL because..?

They could, they had the Berbers to occupy with another conquest, and the Visigoths were weak. You'll notice the Ottomans for example barely noted the Christian Reconquista, since it didn't matter.

 

[Xen]

Who says the Romans are strong? Spain was a backwater to Islam, they didn't care. More important is why didn't they conquer Turkey... Or are the Ephesians Muslim?

who says I car eif spain is strong? that said, any nation that can occupy that much of western europe has to have some pretty damn good power to back it up, other wise it woudl have lasted nearlly as long

 

[North King]

Not necessarily.... *is tempted to point our Rome 400 CE*

 

[Amenhotep7]

they could

Exactly. But with a strong Roman Empire, they COULDN'T. Ergo, Rome is strong ITTL.

 

[North King]

Not really. A strong Rome isn't necessary, only something stronger than the Visigoths enough to make the conquest deemed unimportant compared to lives lost. Stranger still is that they didn't use the berbers to extend into africa.

 

[Xen]

Not really. A strong Rome isn't necessary, only something stronger than the Visigoths enough to make the conquest deemed unimportant compared to lives lost. Stranger still is that they didn't use the berbers to extend into africa.

you forget rome has to be stornger then;

-the Visigoths
-the ostrogoths
-the franks
-the Vandals
-the geets
-Lombards
-the Alemanni
-the Arabs (for a time, Islam held all sicilly- somthing they obviouslyl dont in this timeline, and obvious absence of Iberia as an islamic holding)
-rebellious commanders, governors, and false emperors
-just abotu every other germanic you coudl think of
-the Huns (assuming they came into play in this time line for the west)
-the Slavs

th elist could go on (not to much IMO though, many woudl just be subdivisions of the germanics or the slavs, or people liek th ebulgars, who were like hunnic-slavs the end result is that a Rome that had to withstand all these thing sis still goign to be a powerful entity to deal with, for european and arab alike, and not nearlyl limited to those two realms- because Rome incorperates the part sof europe that were ht emost populace until the industrial revolution, Rome is goign to be quite the economi power house as well- at least compared to the rest of europe, and th emajority of even western asian nations

 

[North King]

No, Rome has to be strong enough to lure allies to their side and deter others.

 

[Xen]

No, Rome has to be strong enough to lure allies to their side and deter others.

that fails misurabley- those who ar eintially "allies" becoem the full fledge dmilitary of said enetiy, unless the entity can keep up its own military position; your just tryign to think of excuses for a weak Rome

 

[Cuivienen]

Is this the Rome Reborn scenario in which Belisarius becomes the Emperor of Western Rome? A stronger West means a weaker East that is far more likely to collapse against the dual threats of the Bulgars and the Muslims.

 

[Xen]

Is this the Rome Reborn scenario in which Belisarius becomes the Emperor of Western Rome? A stronger West means a weaker East that is far more likely to collapse against the dual threats of the Bulgars and the Muslims.

not so; a stronger west actuall means a stronger east

a member that is VERY respected by me on these forums, the venerable Calgacus, can shed soem light on this matter; simpley put, its widelyl aknowldged that Justinian was perhaps the single greatest cause for the collapse of the eastern empire- it is because in his campaign to "reunite" the empire, he VASTLLY overextended the eastern Roman (wouldnt be "Byzantine" until the reign of heraclius) and brought bloody conflit that destoyed th eland and propert of the only two provinces worht having in the west, Italy and North Africa- with a firm western emperor, who had great martial skills, and was enderaing to his men, he woudlnt have to rely on the east for protection and overlord ship- he coudl use his resources, close at hand, and close under his administration and watch eye effectivlly- the eas tmeanwhile, dosent have to concentrate on far away drians on its military resources, like the Lombards and Franks; but can consentrate on the Sassainids,Slavs, and eventually, the arabs, and assorted mounted nomads.

 

[North King]

that fails misurabley- those who ar eintially "allies" becoem the full fledge dmilitary of said enetiy, unless the entity can keep up its own military position; your just tryign to think of excuses for a weak Rome

No, I'm just quite sure Rome needen'[t be strong, and in this case, it certainly seems to be under siege from all sides, but most likely falling.

 

[Xen]

No, I'm just quite sure Rome needen'[t be strong, and in this case, it certainly seems to be under siege from all sides, but most likely falling.

A)its a god damn map NK. you cant tell **** about th epolitical situation

B)agian, its a god damn map- you cant tell **** abotu the military situation, but it seems to speak for itself- the blue nation in gual has a latinate sounding name- perhaps its a break away Imperial state, but for th emost part, eh th western empire is very well preserved, and that points directlly to it being a very strong military entity. either you have interests in playing an NES, and wantign to use the arabs to expand into europe, or you just want a weak rome to either shut me up in the thread, or to keep me down in an NES; niether of which would actually happen mind you

 

[North King]

A)its a god damn map NK. you cant tell **** about th epolitical situation

Given das is usually reasonable about alternate histories, I can guess it well enough.

B)agian, its a god damn map- you cant tell **** abotu the military situation,

Ditto as above.

but it seems to speak for itself- the blue nation in gual has a latinate sounding name- perhaps its a break away Imperial state,

France is a latin name too.

but for th emost part, eh th western empire is very well preserved, and that points directlly to it being a very strong military entity.

Well, except for North Africa. It probably is fairly strong, but in a failing Byzantine kind of way. With enemies on all sides. As most surviving Romes would provoke.

either you have interests in playing an NES, and wantign to use the arabs to expand into europe,

Um, no. Arabs are rather sucky in this particular situation.

or you just want a weak rome to either shut me up in the thread,

I doubt it would shut you up.

or to keep me down in an NES

Why would I want that? I haven't had a good war in years...

 

[alex994]

*sigh* Do you know why this always happen Xen with you against everyone else? You're too easily offended, distracted, and etc if someone says something "wrong" about Rome... Yes, i know your response will probably contain astrieks about so and so, or probably even me...

 

[das]

I KNEW you people wouldn't guess. Didn't I tell you that all is not what it seems?

Rome never conquers Eastward?

MUCH later then that.

Huns go to Eastern Roman Empire instead of West?

No. Slightly later.

Alexander the Great dies late and stunts the growth of Rome.

That is uncomparably later then the POD. As you already guessed.

Besides, in that case according to MY althist philosophy there would be no chance Islam would emerge. You know me.

The Roman Empire is obviously strong

Nobody said that. But, yeah, I'd admit that its pretty strong.

Islam also apparently never conquered Turkey.

We're talking 1000 AD here. Muslism were actually on the retreat at that time, having already lost Antioch - in OTL.

The German migrations go to the Balkans instead of across the Rhine?

Uh, the BULGAR Empire.

Or are the Ephesians Muslim?

Not at all, they consider themselves successors to the Byzantine Empire. That's a hint, btw.

They could, they had the Berbers to occupy with another conquest, and the Visigoths were weak

They conquered it because the Visgoths were in a middle of a civil war and the losing party actually invited them in. They, apparently, expected the nice little Berbers to give them the throne. Those gullible infidels...

Is this the Rome Reborn scenario in which Belisarius becomes the Emperor of Western Rome?

Um, no. Arabs are rather sucky in this particular situation.

Oh? They are - but the Muslim PERSIANS are much stronger.

blue nation in gual has a latinate sounding name

Xen, relearn your mid-Dark Age post-Clovis Frankish historical geography.

---

Everyone - keep trying. None of you came close yet.

 

[Xen]

@Northking

Nobody said that. But, yeah, I'd admit that its pretty strong.

Told ya'

 

[das]

Oh, and:

it certainly seems to be under siege from all sides, but most likely falling.

Nah, no it isn't. At this point it (for the moment at least) is safe, on the north and the east at least via several victories and skillfull diplomacy. The Berber pirates are annoying, though. VERY annoying.

 

[das]

Give up yet?

Hint: the POD is AFTER the Germannic migrations into Roman territory.

 

[Xen]

well, on one hand thier is Aetius not getting murdered, and actually putting back on track the empire

another is that Rome soemhow comes across barbarian spoils of war, and can reduce taxes on the populace, which also sets them back on track

thier is belisarius ofrgetting Constant, and going all out for the west

thier is the ostrogoths getting regonized as late Roman dynasty, and then them gettin greplaced by native Romans

and I guess thier ar eothers