Alternate History NESes; Spout some ideas!

So? Which alternate histories appeal to you?

  • Rome Never Falls

    Votes: 58 35.8%
  • Axis Wins WWII

    Votes: 55 34.0%
  • D-Day Fails

    Votes: 41 25.3%
  • No Fort Sumter, No Civil War

    Votes: 32 19.8%
  • No Waterloo

    Votes: 33 20.4%
  • Islamic Europe

    Votes: 43 26.5%
  • No Roman Empire

    Votes: 37 22.8%
  • Carthage wins Punic Wars

    Votes: 51 31.5%
  • Alexander the Great survives his bout with malaria

    Votes: 54 33.3%
  • Mesoamerican Empires survived/Americas not discovered

    Votes: 48 29.6%
  • Americans lose revolutionary war/revolutionary war averted

    Votes: 44 27.2%
  • Years of Rice and Salt (Do it again!)

    Votes: 24 14.8%
  • Recolonization of Africa

    Votes: 20 12.3%
  • Advanced Native Americans

    Votes: 59 36.4%
  • Successful Zimmerman note

    Votes: 35 21.6%
  • Germany wins WWI

    Votes: 63 38.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 31 19.1%

  • Total voters
    162
he allied with the French king and destroyed Normandy

Not sure about this one. The French king was amongst William's main backers. Much more likely is him allying with the local earls and with Acquitaine against France and Normandy. The Angevin kings take over France and continue their alliance with England.
France conquered Northern Italy,

Huh? Sorry, but I doubt that knight-based armies had a really good chance against Italy even back then. Unless they have allies there...
 
From the same world as the last one: Year 1814. After the end of the "Third Coalition War", also called the "Peninsular War" but for different peninsulas in different places. Also, a major Prusso-Austrian war, incited by the French, has ended. All Iberian nations are French puppets.
 

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OOC: And now, its time for something completely different...

IC:

Cosmic signs and predictions guide our life, in a way. Not DIRECTLY, ofcourse - but if one is told that he will die in this battle, he is likely to die in it from a light wound, believing this to be the prediction being carried out.

Some look sceptically at prophecies, some don't. Signs in the sky are ignored by some, but not by others. But there were much less sceptical people in the Middle Ages then now.

Oh, no, there were a lot. But now there's more, for better or worse.

In 1387, a very very bright comet was noticed. It influenced: a gipsy fortune teller, a ducal personal fortune teller and a fortune teller captured by a bunch of Mongols. For some odd reason, it granted the three large yet one-time powers of persuasion anda belief that the comet was a persuasive "alcohol is bad for your health" sign.

Basically, they persuaded, respectively, a Lithuanian archer, an Italian duke and a fearsome Mongol warlord with a bad foot to tone down on the drinking, and to live a marginally healthier way of life. Such things happen, you know. The margin was enough to change history.

Will continue later. Now guess who these three were and what role will they play in this althist (you don't have to answer on the first question for the first person as he is quite fictional)?
 
Well, the Mongol is Odegai Khan, a famous drinker, but the Italian Duke is harder to pin down.
 
Odegai Khan

WRONG! I said, 1387.
Italian Duke

Okay, a hint, he will live longer due to something of a butterfly effect and something of being more healthy, as in OTL he died from a plague.

But what effect on history would those three cause?
 
QUITE! I was surprised NK didn't get it.

Another hint, NK, about the duke - that duke's death destroyed a comparatively large state in north Italy.
 
Something about Florence?
 
In a way. But not directly.
 
And the differences from our timeline begun:

August 12th, 1399 Anno Domini, somewhere in lands popularily known as the Rus.

Vytautas, or Witold for Poles, or Vitold for Russians, but whatever his name, the Great, was filled with worries. This was to be his first major campaign, not counting those against the rebels. Here, he will face the very armies of Hell, as some said. The Tataromongols were a great and worthy enemy indeed, but Vitold felt that he stood a real chance. After all, the Golden Horde was badly shaken up recently. First, Timur the Lame, another Mongol warlord, has defeated Tokhtamysh (Vitold smirked, looking at the tents of the former khan of the Golden Horde, who was now, along with his supporters, a refugee in Vitold's realm, and remembering the way the arrogant khan had to plead for Vitold's assistance); luckily, unlike a few years ago at Poltava, when led by Vitold's predecessor, Timur would not be here with his demonic host. Then, the infighting begun, as Mongol killed Mongol. Then, Russian princes begun looking up again. And now, the armies of the Lithuanian-and-Russian Grand Duchy were going to make good on the second word in the name of their country. Not counting the "and" bit. They were here to destroy the Mongol power.

The archer Kustriytas sincerely hoped he would not miss. He really did hope to hit a Mongol nobleman (and prefferably a hostile one), as that would be revenge for his father, and besides, if he could confirm it (which he hoped he will) he could get a reward. In fact, he even followed that old gypsie fortune teller's advice this time, not drinking any alcohol in the night before the battle. Well, almost no alcohol. Just a little vodka. To keep himself warm.

Like a swarm of locusts in the sky, the Mongol horde rode out, Kustriytas recognized the richly-clothed Mongol to be Temur Kutlugh. Khan of the Golden Horde.

The Mongols got closer... Cannons fired at the charging Mongols, but the casualties inflicted were small islands in the sea of the Mongol attack. Russian and Lithuanian bogatyrs and knights (respectively) attacked the Mongol cavalry, tying it down. The river was quiet behind the charging horde. Desperate at the stop of his army's attack, Temur Kutlugh joined the battle personally, fighting in the first ranks...

But as he rode forth, a single arrow pierced him. It hti him in a particularily nasty way. And he died.

Desperate over the loss of their leader, Mongols begun to panic. After regaining some semblance control, the Mongol commanders decided to send forward the reserve to bolster their lines. But by then, Tokhtamysh and his Mongols already outflanked the Mongol main force. The fearsome Mongol army was forced to retreat. Just like the Muscovites did in 1380, the Lithuanians broke the Mongol army which was way overconfident anyway.

Edigu, Emir of the Golden Horde, tried to restore control. But as Lithuanians marched east, reaching River Don and invading Crimea in Tokhtamysh's name, the Golden Horde simply disintegrated in its petty infighting.

(in OTL, Temur Kutlugh died from his wounds shortly after the battle, which he won by sending his reserve into the enemy rear. This marked the end of Lithuanian eastward expansion and forced Vytautas/Witold/Vitold to look west instead)

---

To the southwest, in 1402, a generally more healthy Gian Galeazzo Visconti, duke of Milan, mercenary employer and ruler of a large amount of land in northern Italy, naturally, didn't die from the Plague. Instead, he invaded Florence in 1403, his mercenaries and ordinary forces alike crushing the Florentine militia. His reign was long and fruitful, he died only in 1427 as an old, respectable and somewhat insane man. By then, Milan, in a series of war and inheritance, controlled all of Northern Italy (north of the Papal States) excluding Venice and Genoa. Savoy was the hardest one, ofcourse, but the Holy Roman Emperor was a good friend of his and mustered a large amount of vassals. Gian was only happy to let THEM pillage the Savoyard cities, and then to let his forces enter Savoy to restore order that came after all that pillaging. Thus he was beloved by the masses there as well.

---

Further east in space and further forward in time, in Otrar in 1405, Tamerlane begun his eastward expedition. The destination was China - ofcourse, along the way he subjugated the Chagatai Khanate. Before departing, he left control over his massive empire to his son, Shah Rokh, his youngest, but also his most promising son. Timur's army would devastate Chagatai realm, and would defeat a Ming army at Suzhou, but in that battle, Timur would die, and his forces would, after taking a pretty large ransom for that captured Chinese emperor, go back.

By then, Shah Rokh would already get rid of all those annoying relatives who wanted to take the empire from him, and thus would inherit the Timurid realm. Which did not fall apart, ofcourse.
 
So, basically, I:
- Continued Lithuanian eastward expansion.
- Destroyed the Golden Horde earlier.
- Made sure that Milan remains a major power.
- Saved the Timurid Empire.

Where do you think am I taking all this?
 
Yes. Incidentally, Buryats - the northernmost modern Mongols - are under threat of dying out due to weak genetic immunity to vodka. Rather tragic...
 
The divergences pick up, and quickly, and in many places - for early 15th century was an unstable and dangerous, and, as Sapkowski described it, historic time.

"How can we tell that a time is historic? Simple. Everything is happening way too fast."

Take, for instance, the Hundred Years War, which for thirty years was very very quiet. Suddenly - bah! - in 1407 a mini-civil war started in France between Armagnac and Burgundian dukes, while the king was raving mad. And then, in 1415, an English army landed in northern France. The awesome Armagnac French heavy cavalry force, the finest in the world, [insert more aristocratic French propaganda here], has rode to meet the English at Agincourt, knowing that the poor stupid English peasants would probably run away when the first charge comes. Yay!

The French knights were a rather excitable bunch, and very emotional, too. And impatient. The silly mercenaries can't even move properly, they are supposed to charge, not move like a bunch of turtles! The French knights destroyed the formations of their own infantry and charged to victory and glory. Victory and glory of the English. The French knights, as far as I know, were rather surprised to find themselves dead or captured.

After that great English victory, Anglo-Burgundian forces waited until 1417, for some reason. When it did come, they charged across France very very fast. Maybe, maybe the French could have gathered forces and put up serious resistance, but a) that was unlikely in the first place and b) the Holy Roman Emperor was feeling pro-English, while Duke Gian Galeazzo Visconti, an ever-loyal ally of the Holy Roman Emperor and much like most remaining Italian rulers a man with a good sense of profit, went on a rampage. Oh, Genoa? You are trying to help the French? No, your imperial majesty, don't intimidate them like in OTL and let me teach them a lesson! Take that, Genoa! Genoa fell, much to the cheers of the Venetians who discarded their fear of the Milanese. After all, they killed Genoa, surely that means that they're nice people!

Provence is ruled by relatives of the French king, who sympathize with that madman! Bah, they're hardly good vassals of your imperial majesty. There, let me liquidate that little inconvenience. Take that, Provence...

Etc. Suffice it is to say that the Milanese also by then grabbed up Genoa after a very violent assault augmented with good use of cannons, granted Provence to the Holy Roman Emperor (who was so touched and who so didn't want such a distant possesion that he awarded it to his most loyal vassal, Duke Visconti), then finally attacked France. Charles the would-be VII, the heir to the French throne, was called a dauphin for his holdings in Dauphine. Luckily for himself, he wasn't there in 1419, because that's when the mercenary armies of Milan overrun the whole region with Imperial help. The dauphin was smarter then his father and realized that, basically, he was losing this. But the peace terms were to exclude him and his family from the line of succession to the French throne ALTOGETHER and forever. Amongst other nasty things. He sighed, and decided to fight on. But the French were losing and losing, even after mustering something of an army. That army was crushed in 1423, when the Anglo-Burgundian forces took Orleans. Further south, Languedoc was occupied by the Milanese; of little relief was the fact that after this, the Milanese stopped the major offensives and instead started pillaging nearby territories. In 1426, in the Battle at Limoges, the dauphin was captured. This was the end. The Hundred Years War was over.

What came in its place? Well, first there was a now-connected (by French territory) Burgundy somewhat to the east of the Seine (and also slightly east from Paris). it stretched from Flanders to Franche Comte and Vichy. The Milanese have taken over Genoa (including Corsica), Dauphine and Provence. The rest became a part of the new United Kingdom of England and France. Ofcourse, there will be some qualms with this, the largest being the "Holy Rebellion" or "Joan the Witch's Uprising" (depending on your point of view), raging from 1429 to 1437, and that's not counting the small rebel groups that were left over from that rebellion well into the 1450s. There were rebellions, yes. But King Edward V of England, or Edward I of the United Kingdom as he is more popularily known, or rather Edward the Unifier, or Edward the Conqueror, or the ever-fashionable Edward the Great, didn't let anything of the kind to overthrow him.

Burgundy prospered from this in particular, becoming a kingdom within the Holy Roman Empire. The first king was Philipp I the Good; under his reign, Burgundy would not only become a kingdom, and not only a fairly big one, and not only a very rich (due to Flanders) one, but also would gain would gain the lands of Brabant and Holland, and become very influential. Future historians would describe Burgundy and Milan as treacherous children of the Holy Roman Empire, under whose fatherly protection they prospered until they were strong enough to act on their own, not giving anything back to poor, poor Holy Roman Empire.

Notably, those future historians did not come from neither Burgundy nor Lombardy (as Milan would later be known as. Some wanted to call it Italy, but they-who-be-in-power decided that as England wasn't Britain and France wasn't Gaul and Hungary wasn't Pannonia, Lombardy shouldn't be Italy, case closed)... They WERE however from [insert a nation in this world's future that doesn't like neither Lombardy nor Burgundy].

Much like in OTL, the Hussites rebelled in 1419, causing a lot of trouble and distracting many of their neighbhors to sending hordes of knights to put the followers of Hus down. Much like at Agincourt, the knights were rather rudely beaten up. Eventually, as Poland was unstable and unable to send reinforcements, Zizka succesfully fought back the crusaders. A very awkward peace left the Hussites in control of Bohemia and Moravia, though after Zizka died from the plague, a more moderate faction came to power. After quite some hassle, they elected a monarch from local nobility (the part of it that didn't flee) starting the Varic Dynasty and declared the Hussite Church to be the state religion. That caused another crusade, though a much smaller one. All crusaders involved were injured in the making of this timeline. As time went by, trade restarted with Poland and other neighbhors...

Because I say so, the Hohenzollerns never did get Brandenburg (butterflies from different Imperial policies and some other stuff), concentrating on Franconia instead.

In the year 1410, met two armies at Grunwald-Tannenberg. On one side, the Poles, with various mercenaries and other such folks, though not getting the promised Lithuanian reinforcements, on the other side, the Teutonic Order. Now, normally this would have been yet another triumph of infantry over cavalry, but it just so happened that the Teutonic Order also had Novgorodian mercenaries. And other mercenaries as well. Also, the Poles too did not overtly rely on infantry yet. So the Polish forces were eventually routed; the last one to retreat were the Czech mercenaries. Amongst them was Jan Zizka, but this name hardly meant anything to anybody before 1419.

Either way, the Teutonic Order prolonged its existance...

Lithuanian armies marched east, on and on. By 1430, all the old lands of the Golden Horde were safely in their hands after Tokhtamysh was poisoned. In 1432, a great war started with Muscovy, in 1433, the Muscovite forces were crushed at Tushino. By 1440, Novgorod also was subdued, as were the various minors. The Lithuanian-and-Russian Grand Duchy, or the Grand Duchy of Lithuania-Russia, has united Russia. While religious tensions between west and east remained in the Duchy, these were not too violent. Trully Lithuania-Russia had great potential...

The Ottomans in 1413 under Muhammad I have once again raised their head, using the instability in the Timurid Empire in order to start grabbing the tiny Anatolian states. But Shah Rokh didn't like that, for some reason. By 1417, he was done with internal threats and rebellions. I don't have much time, so I'll be brief. By 1426, after a very close battle, the Ottoman forces were crushed. By 1430, Anatolia was divided between Timurid vassals, while the Sultan fled to the Balkan Ottoman territories. But there, Hungary, now freed up from the Hussite Crusades, invaded, conquering many lands and installing many puppet rulers. By 1440, Ottomans were no more, Byzantines controlled the entire Marmara coast and parts of Thrace, Bulgaria was independant, while West Balkans up to the Latin and Byzantine states in Greece was under Hungarian rule, direct or indirect. Ofcourse, getting there involved some wars with the local population...

A not in particular significant (or so it seems!) change happened in China. The capture of the Yung-lo Emperor by the Mongols shook him up seriously, and thus long-distance sea travel was cancelled earlier - in 1415. However, his capture also seriously damaged his health, and the imperial administration system as well. Generally, this meant that Ming China got more unstable then in OTL...
 
Eagerly awaiting comments. No, no map yet, but there will be eventually.
 
hmm Intresting how the England-French thing would pan out in the future. I'm guessing the rest of the Isles Would fall to the bigger armies of the two, Scotland would have no help from the french etc. Oh and the UK would be more into continental affairs....

:crazy:
 
w00t! You mentioned the Genoese archers that got trampled by their allied French knights at Agincourt!...and Crecy!
 
hmm Intresting how the England-French thing would pan out in the future. I'm guessing the rest of the Isles Would fall to the bigger armies of the two, Scotland would have no help from the french etc. Oh and the UK would be more into continental affairs....

Well, yes, the British Isles will be unified earlier, and yes, UK will be much more into continental affairs. Incidentally, THIS UK will have a stronger land army but a much weaker fleet (slightly above the OTL France level), i.e. it will have greater concerns then "ruling the waves".
 
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