Alternates to Judaism - MODCOMP

[Mercenary82]

Taoism could stand to go, too...

I'd prefer to get rid of Taoism in favour of something else instead of Judaism. If you get rid of Judaism, might this not throw the Egyptian UHV a little bit out of skew? If you put in Zoroastrianism, the Arabian and Persian ones will be fine, but otherwise...

Egyptian UHV would still be possible, but you would need Delhi to make up for lack of culture in Jerusalem.

 

[kairob]

That is what I call a waste, using a religion, of which we have a limited account for increadably limited effects. It is proposed to decrease the spread rate to 0-5%. So basically a whole religions slot used to satisfy ONE city. So here is a thread for a modcomp to replace it with a religion that can do things and be more accurate.

 

[fearuin]

Yes, I agree with kairob. Though I'm not still pretty sure about zoroastrism, it is a waste reduce the spreading of a religion nearly to 0%. If it was too minoritary than only deserves to stay in their holy city, then it's better to make a new wonder called "Temple of Salomon" that give more or less the same as a Holy Shrine, except for spreading a religion, of course . And use that slot for a new religion.

 

[LuKo]

I thought that Judaism was/is spread quite good in real world- followers of this faith settle in many countries instead of using missionaries (in civ terms)- so in RFC terms because none of playable civs have Judaism as a state religion it's spread without missionaries.

 

[kairob]

Yeah, but only in small numbers, so if the counts enough to have juedaism in lots of cities then most cities would end up with anmost all religions.

 

[LuKo]

I think that Judaism should stay but not spread as fast as now (Europe have Christianity, Islam or Judaism as a state religion) but not as slow as you proposed.

 

[kairob]

We know that. but this thread is for people who disagree and want it replaced.

 

[fearuin]

I thought that Judaism was/is spread quite good in real world- followers of this faith settle in many countries instead of using missionaries (in civ terms)- so in RFC terms because none of playable civs have Judaism as a state religion it's spread without missionaries.

Yes, you're right, but you're missing one point: as kairob says, they're only small communities, and rarely they become the "local religious power". They are usually respected for being master crafters, bankers, etc; but not for their faith.

 

[LuKo]

Isn't it represented well in the game now?

 

[fearuin]

It's over-represented. That's the problem.

 

[LuKo]

Zoroastrianism wouldn't be even more overrepresented when it would be included?

 

[kairob]

not in the early game, and it is feasable that zoroastrianism didnt collapse as a major religion, it is not feasable that juedaism became one without changing the nature and charactoristics of the religion.

 

[Che Guava]

I would have to say that there is a definite case for Judaism being included as a major religion. Besides the fact that it has had a tremendous influence on all abrahamic faiths, it has had many followers outside israel, from spain to north africa to the edge of the middle east, and not just the diaspora.

Also, I think that the issue of it being non-proselitistic is a bit of a moot point as well: one could argue that hinduism and taoism are nothing more than the state religions of india and china respectively, the only difference between the former and the two latter is that China and India are larger than israel.

I beleive that the key to keeping Judaism contained in the early statges of the games lies in creating incentives for not choosing a state religion. I've toyed with the idea in mods of making "paganism" civic more like "free religion": no state religion, 'pagan' temples that create happiness under paganism civic and unhappiness in cities that have religions attached to them. In that way, there are incentives for, say, the roman empire to stick with paganism rather than convert to Judaism the minute it pops up in one of thier cities.

 

[mitsho]

I would second that (but again, this is a modcomp to erase Judaism, should be in another thread).

Paganism should allow pagan temples built everywhere, state religion only where religion is present. Pagan temples should give culture and happines and go obsolete with at last Theology, or something. Would need playtestint though.

mick

 

[kairob]

Would it be possible to code the paganism civic so that it has no state religion, adds 1 happyness and 1 culture to all cities but one unhappyness for each city with a nonstate religion and allows the construction of pagan temples and monastries. Pagan missionaries (not sure on this one btw) could be used to remove other religions affectivly restoring a city to paganism.

On a seporate but related note is it possible to set it so that non state religions had a 5 chance of being removed from your cities varying depending on which religious civic you have?

 

[Edungeon]

Paganism giving +1 is too overpower, all the newly created Cities will start to increse its borders...

I like the idea: +1 Happy. Maybe Granaries +1 ? =P

 

[Talkie_Toaster]

We'd also need to balance this with some bad effects though. Maybe a severe diplo hit to civs that have a state religion?

 

[Che Guava]

Would it be possible to code the paganism civic so that it has no state religion, adds 1 happyness and 1 culture to all cities but one unhappyness for each city with a nonstate religion and allows the construction of pagan temples and monastries. Pagan missionaries (not sure on this one btw) could be used to remove other religions affectivly restoring a city to paganism.

All of these are certainly mod-able, and not too difficult to do. I would hesitate to include a 'pagan missionary' (although i would check out the various 'inquisitor mods' that thelopez has dabbled with), simply due to the fact that animist/polythist proto-religions don't have the same self-pertetuating creeds that religions do. There's a reason why the pantheons of the past have fallen: the are organized as 'top-down' systems that collapse without leadership, rather than religions, that ake a life of thier own in the form of ritual, philosoph and creeds, giving owernership of the beleifs to an individual rather than an elite. I would create pagan temples that don't require a religion (or perhaps several: a 'harvest' temple, a 'seafaring' temple,
etc to represent the polytheistic nature of proto-religions) that create happiness and culture under a non-state-religion paganism, but are obsolete under other religious civics.

On a seporate but related note is it possible to set it so that non state religions had a 5 chance of being removed from your cities varying depending on which religious civic you have?

Not sure how this works, but it would seem to be possible.

 

[Edungeon]

yeah. "-2 You are Pagan!"

 

[Talkie_Toaster]

Not -2, more severe than that, maybe the same or a little more that "We are upset that you have fallen...heathen...etc.."