Alternative Map for DOC

[need my speed]

That was my point, actually.

 

[1SDANi]

A large population working a small amount of land could fit other civilisations as well, to be sure, but why not?

Well I always assumed you can't have 2 pops working the same land cuz it'd be too many hands in the kitchen, too crowded, or any other bad thing that comes from too many people. I was just wondering if Java historically had really good workforce organization or some othersuch that would explain why they can go beyond the limit. I'm of the mindset that a unique power has to represent a unique aspect of the nation's governence.

@Leoreth I like your idea. Maybe something likeUP: "+2 Production to Islands and +1 Commerce to Coast." and a UB that gives +2 Food to sea resources.

The idea is that islands would be primarily production tiles whilst sea resources like fish would be used for food and commerce.

 

[need my speed]

Ah, no, I suggested that as a way to represent many people in a small area. But the idea of increased food production or an increase of island output or such is probably better, for it is more 'normal' and requires less work.

 

[Leoreth]

Oh, with islands I actually meant small landmasses, not the tile feature. And you're right, having more than one city work the same tile is basically impossible to implement.

 

[1SDANi]

Oh, with islands I actually meant small landmasses, not the tile feature. And you're right, having more than one city work the same tile is basically impossible to implement.

After looking up Java's economy, I'm surprised that they're actually more based on rice than fish, according to Wikipedia. Looking at it's Wikipedia page gave me a few ideas too.

Java has had a road network since ancient times, but were later connected and perfected with the Java Great Post Road. With this, I would suggest that Roads spawn on every tile -or every tile but the eastern most tile- of Java when they spawn, not as part of their UP, but just to represent this historic element and help them get up to speed faster.

Their economy was heavily reliant on rice, being famous for Rice surpluses and exports since ancient times. So perhaps their UP could be

"Cities with access to Rice have +50% trade route yield and +1 Trade Route. Bonuses are doubled with a Source of Rice." Or some variant of that.

I'd rather it not say Island Cities, as I feel it'd be fun to try and build an empire with the Javanese, plus their small Core will make it hard for the AI or inexperienced players to do that anyways.

Not sure what their UB should be though.

The Great Post Road is interesting, apparently it was built under French controlled Holland's orders, and was used to ease military movement through Java to defend it from the English. It is today used by Java in an upgraded for for its 16 national highways and toll road network, so maybe we could find some way to implement this as their UB or a event for the French to build it and another upon their rise to add an extra commerce to each of the highway tiles?

As for resources, tea, sugar, and coffee (rubber if that's ever added) should all spawn upon the Dutch East India Company's colonization in the 17th century, mirroring their introduction to the Island. Likewise, all cities in Java should gain +1 Health and Commerce from the import of quinine that happened at the same time, a commercial plant used as a medicine which I doubt will be added, so +1 Health and Commerce should be a good replacement, perhaps as a building that builds a non-propogating version of itself in any city with a trade route to the city it's in.

That should be enough of my Wikipedia fuelled rambling. If any of this is wrong, blame Wikipedia and please correct me. I wish to learn.

 

[mccp77]

After looking up Java's economy, I'm surprised that they're actually more based on rice than fish, according to Wikipedia. Looking at it's Wikipedia page gave me a few ideas too.

Java has had a road network since ancient times, but were later connected and perfected with the Java Great Post Road. With this, I would suggest that Roads spawn on every tile -or every tile but the eastern most tile- of Java when they spawn, not as part of their UP, but just to represent this historic element and help them get up to speed faster.

Their economy was heavily reliant on rice, being famous for Rice surpluses and exports since ancient times. So perhaps their UP could be

"Cities with access to Rice have +50% trade route yield and +1 Trade Route. Bonuses are doubled with a Source of Rice." Or some variant of that.

I'd rather it not say Island Cities, as I feel it'd be fun to try and build an empire with the Javanese, plus their small Core will make it hard for the AI or inexperienced players to do that anyways.

Not sure what their UB should be though.

The Great Post Road is interesting, apparently it was built under French controlled Holland's orders, and was used to ease military movement through Java to defend it from the English. It is today used by Java in an upgraded for for its 16 national highways and toll road network, so maybe we could find some way to implement this as their UB or a event for the French to build it and another upon their rise to add an extra commerce to each of the highway tiles?

As for resources, tea, sugar, and coffee (rubber if that's ever added) should all spawn upon the Dutch East India Company's colonization in the 17th century, mirroring their introduction to the Island. Likewise, all cities in Java should gain +1 Health and Commerce from the import of quinine that happened at the same time, a commercial plant used as a medicine which I doubt will be added, so +1 Health and Commerce should be a good replacement, perhaps as a building that builds a non-propogating version of itself in any city with a trade route to the city it's in.

That should be enough of my Wikipedia fuelled rambling. If any of this is wrong, blame Wikipedia and please correct me. I wish to learn.

I'd like to agree with part of what you're saying and push back on other parts, but let's start a new thread to discuss editting civ's UHVs, abilities, etc.

@Leoreth
Do you still want to connect Java to Sumatra, or do you want to extend Java eastward some more instead?

 

[Royal Tenenbaum]

Can someone please post the most current edition of the world map as a save file, so I can look at it and get caught up on all the progress?

 

[Leoreth]

Do you still want to connect Java to Sumatra, or do you want to extend Java eastward some more instead?

I don't think I'm at a point yet where I can definitely say what I want to do.

 

[hnrysml]

One important thing about places such as Java or central Honshu in Japan is that there not large regions at all, they just have incredibly dense population densities. Rather than distorting a map and damaging gameplay by connecting separate islands, just rework the civ somehow to accommodate this concept

 

[1SDANi]

One important thing about places such as Java or central Honshu in Japan is that there not large regions at all, they just have incredibly dense population densities. Rather than distorting a map and damaging gameplay by connecting separate islands, just rework the civ somehow to accommodate this concept

There is an argument however that Java having 3 cities is quite historically crucial, as the first Kingdom grew on the west coast, the most important Kingdom grew in the middle, and the east coast was where said Kingdom moved its capital to. I agree about connecting Sumatra and Java though, perhaps just shift Leoreth's proposed Java east 1 tile, that way it won't have any wierd diagonal connections.

 

[Leoreth]

In Civ4, land = population and power. There is only so much you can do to work around that idea.

 

[Bautos42]

I enlarged Indonesia by moving Australia 1 south and 2 east. Sorry for the poor quality of the last Screenshot, the Interface got buggy when I tabbed out of the game.

 

[star15389]

I would remove all the jungle on Java, replace the mountain with a hill, and move two or three food resources from elsewhere in the archipelago to Java. The island should have at least 2x Rice

 

[Leoreth]

I like the shape of the new Java, but it looks like you also increased the size of Borneo another time, which looks too big now. I also think Bali should connect to Java as it does in the current map. Also not sure if Belitung deserves being a land tile, although more land is always better I guess.

 

[Bautos42]

I would remove all the jungle on Java, replace the mountain with a hill, and move two or three food resources from elsewhere in the archipelago to Java. The island should have at least 2x Rice

I thougth about adding a second rice to Java, bit it got really crowded. Java has got four food resources already (Including two sea resources) and there hast to be room for colonial reaources like cacao or coffee spawning.

I like the shape of the new Java, but it looks like you also increased the size of Borneo another time, which looks too big now. I also think Bali should connect to Java as it does in the current map. Also not sure if Belitung deserves being a land tile, although more land is always better I guess.

I agree that Belitung migth be better represented as an island feature. Concerning Bali, I actually just wanted to represent Bali with an island feature, the tiles are supposed to be east and west Nusa Tengara and Timor. But I can move the tiles acordingly in order to represent Bali.

Finally, I enlarged Borneo on purpose. Considerung the size of Java, Sumatra and Indochina, having Borneo any smaller would make it far too small in comparision.

 

[Leoreth]

What about Borneo in comparison to the Malay peninsula?

 

[DC123456789]

Couldn't you also add floodplains to the island to make it more food-rich?

 

[Bautos42]

What about Borneo in comparison to the Malay peninsula?

If anything the Malay peninsula migth be too small. I'll try to make it larger while still looking natural.

 

[AessaSH]

This is my revision of Maritime SEA + Australia:

Spoiler Full :

Spoiler Western Indonesia :

Spoiler Eastern Indonesia :

Spoiler Philippine :

Spoiler Northen Australia :

Spoiler Southern Australia :

Spoiler Srivijaya :

Spoiler Majapahit + Malays (as vassal) :

Spoiler City Placement :

Sorry for lack of resources and features. My World Builder cannot draw anything except flat grassland, coast, peak, river, and city.
I don't know how to remove this glitch. Replacing files with merijn_v1's BigMap_Python is not working for me.

 

[Temüjin VIII]

I like the idea of connecting Samar/Leyte to Mindanao diagonally, could somewhat act like a strait because the Philippines is just composed of a lot of small islands, though I'm not pretty sure if that works. Anyway, re: city placement, I suggest moving Manila 1W and Davao 1S.

Ah, and also, put a river east of the Manila tile I suggested (flowing south). I'm thinking of placing rice 1N or 1N1E of the same tile to represent the Banaue Rice Terraces, and of course it must be irrigated.