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Alternative Map for DOC

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Bautos42, Jul 11, 2017.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    If you want a more geographically accurate Europe, you need to make it smaller, not larger. Europe itself is already (legitimately) enlarged for gameplay reasons, so every argument for resizing some European region should be motivated by gameplay concerns, not geography.
     
  2. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    I think they mean that seeing Europe being so large but Iberia so small is a bit weird, moreso than seeing a large Europe and small Africa, due to the frequency of Iberia's inclusion in maps of Europe.
     
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  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    That's of course a matter of personal perspective, but Iberia looks fine to me in comparison.
     
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  4. AtlantaMarty

    AtlantaMarty No longer active

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    If I take a screenshot of my proposal of Iberia and France that shows both of them (I can't do it right now because I only have access to a Mac laptop at college), will you consider my proposal?
     
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  5. ozqar

    ozqar King

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    Take a screenshot that covers the British Islands, Germany, Italy, Tunisia, Morocco, and Iberia. That should put it into perspective, not having it next to France only!
     
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  6. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    I consider everything in this thread, however the point where I make decisions is when I have the map in front of me to edit it myself. Everytime you make a suggestion here this weird dynamic emerges where you first pressure me for my opinion and when it's not an unconditional endorsement, it's like you're trying to haggle me into accepting it anyway. If you believe in the strength of your own suggestions, just make them.
     
  7. Ani Taneen

    Ani Taneen Warlord

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    Senpai, please notice us!
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    omae wa mou shindeiru
     
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  9. Ani Taneen

    Ani Taneen Warlord

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    Zetsuboushiita!
     
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  10. AtlantaMarty

    AtlantaMarty No longer active

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    In that case, here's my proposal for Iberia and France
    unnamed-1.jpg
    I also think you should use Jules Auburn's changes to/extra column in Germany and Poland, but I had issues copying that into my map of changes

    Here's my rationale
    Geographical
    1. In Bautos42's original map, the northern French coastline was too steep - mine is closer to the actual shape of the coastline
    2. In the original map, Iberia was also too short - it had an extra column but had the same number of rows as the current DoC map - this remedies that by allowing an extra row of tiles in Iberia, so it essentially fixes two inaccuracies/distortions in Europe

    Gameplay
    1. Even with the northern French coastline stretched out, you still can't really fit in Brussels without overcrowding, whereas adding the extra tile to Iberia reduces crowding between Madrid and Lisbon and also allows a fairly comfortable Bilbao
    2. All 5 French cities planned for this map (Paris, Lyons, Marseilles, Bordeaux, and Brest or Rennes) still fit comfortably here
    3. Concerns were raised that this would make Spain's game too easy vis-a-vis stability - these can be solved by making Barcelona and Bilbao historical area instead of core - given the recent popularity of both Basque and Catalan nationalism, it also makes sense from an accuracy perspective.
     
  11. Ani Taneen

    Ani Taneen Warlord

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    This is a good proposal.
     
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  12. Darnokthemage

    Darnokthemage Chieftain

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    Make Barcelona non-flipping and make Spain start as the kingdom of Leon.
     
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  13. cmakk1012

    cmakk1012 Prince

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    On the one hand, weakening Spain this much would seem to strengthen the Moors considerably. On the other hand, the Moors should be stronger in the early game so this isn’t really an issue. I guess the “historical scenario” would be the Moors taking Barsalunah and then collapsing, allowing Spain to rise?
     
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  14. Caesar Augustus

    Caesar Augustus Prince

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    I mean each part of the proposal (removing Bilbao from core, removing Barcelona from core, and removing Barcelona from flip zone) can be implemented individually until the right balance is hit upon. There's likely going to have to be a lot of fiddling with the details worldwide to accommodate the new map, but having these options out there helps allay concerns that this might be too much of a buff for Spain going forward. :)
     
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  15. ngazi

    ngazi Chieftain

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    A bit late I guess, but on the topic of terrain.

    1. sand dunes: 0 food 0 hammer tiles just like the current deserts
    2. desert: 0 food 1 hammer like the semidesert
    3. highland: 0 food 1 hammer like the current desert hills
    but with fresh water desert and highland can be farmed, which makes sense for Tibet

    Mounted units have 1 move point and only get double movement on plains, savanna, steppes and early roads. On grasslands and cold flatland they move like other military units. In contrast civilian units have 2 move points and can move two tiles on grasslands, etc. Mechanical era military units have 2 move points.
     
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  16. Vectors

    Vectors Prince

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    Where can I take a look at the whole proposed current map?
     
  17. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    There's no such thing atm. Sad.
     
  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    The best way is to look at the new map in game. Merijn compiled all required files to view it without errors here, although it should be noted that this version does not represent a playable version of the map (also I haven't tried it myself).
     
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  19. Pavel Chichikov

    Pavel Chichikov King

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    I think most of your changes are great, but if any region really doesn't need enlargement it's Scandinavia.
     
  20. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Majorka is 1,405 mi² (Balearic islands together are 1,927 mi²) while Corsica is 3,350 mi², and yet you display Majorka with a land tile while Corsica with island feature. Napoleon would had been greatly displeased with this Frenchman!
     

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