Alternative Map for DOC

[1SDANi]

I think that conversation is better had via PM.

Oh sry, I often forget PMs are even a thing.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I think that conversation is better had via PM.

But why should only the NSA and its Chinese equivalent be allowed to listen to this conversation?

 

[AtlantaMarty]

I've figured out how to make France and Holland look better. Just move Iberia and France 1 tile North. Here's a map of that (also with Britain shifted)

Also, Corsica would be better off attached to Sardinia or nonexistent then attached to mainland Italy.

Also, I would recommend adding a little more grassland to Southern Iberia, and maybe trimming 1 tile off of Brittany.

Britain looks a little skinny and misshapen.

I would probably remove the plains tile 2S of Venice as well.

Maybe change the mountain above the current Salonica into a hill, and put Salonica there, so it crowds Athens less.

I'd recommend adding another hill tile 1W of Trondheim and moving Trondheim there, because that looks a little more realistic.

The coastline around St Petersburg looks a little strange, but the rest of that area is very good

Shifting Iberia and France up, like I suggested would enable you to move Tangiers 1N.

Adding another land tile 1N of the current Tsingtao and moving the city to that tile would probably look more realistic.

I like the changes to the American West Coast proposed earlier in this thread.

I would recommend getting rid of the easternmost tile of Cuba, and replacing it with a new land tile 1S and 1E of Havana.

@Leoreth - I'd love it if you could script it so the America-Mexico border followed the Rio Grande, to avoid the current situation, which looks very strange to me as an American.

 

[1SDANi]

@Leoreth - I'd love it if you could script it so the America-Mexico border followed the Rio Grande, to avoid the current situation, which looks very strange to me as an American.

Or at least make an event that makes the border dependant on the appropriate war. I think the American/Texan Mexican war resulted in the despute being settled, I'm a little rusty on that part of history. IIRC, the borders were really in flux prior to the war, so I'd say the modern borders, if they were to be scripted, should be a result of the Americans winning the war.

 

[Leoreth]

@Leoreth - I'd love it if you could script it so the America-Mexico border followed the Rio Grande, to avoid the current situation, which looks very strange to me as an American.

no

 

[AtlantaMarty]

no

SAD!

 

[1SDANi]

no

I assume no to an event that lets America choose to enforce the border or let it be natural following that specific victorious war with Mexico / Mexico having a similar event should they win?

 

[Leoreth]

if you're unhappy with your borders, increase the culture output by cranking out tons of tweets or something

 

[1SDANi]

if you're unhappy with your borders, increase the culture output by cranking out tons of tweets or something

Of course, I was just thinking that this particular border was a major player in the Mexican-American war. James K Polk offered to sell disputed land between the Rio Grande and Nueces River to the Mexicans, but when he was turned down he moved troops in to protect the territory. Mexico responded by attacking an American outpost in this area, signaling the start of the Mexican-American war.

The end of the war gave the US California, Nevada, and Utah, most of New Mexico, Arizona and Colorado, and parts of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Wyoming, along with giving the US official control of Texas and forced mexico to lock their borders along the Rio Grande. In exchange the US paid a bunch of the Mexocan's expenses.

My point is that the locking of the border along the Rio wasn't a culural thing, it was a diplomatic event, and I feel that should be reflected in game. Doing therwise would be grossly ahistorical. Also, I feel the Polk Offer should be an event. The US should get the choice to give the offer and Mexico should get the choice to accept it.

PS Thank you for getting me to research this bit of history I forgot, man was I off in my memory of it!

 

[DC123456789]

Almost every border is the result of some diplomatic event rather than culture. The US-Mexico border isn't remotely special.

 

[1SDANi]

Almost every border is the result of some diplomatic event rather than culture. The US-Mexico border isn't remotely special.

Well I'm not very well versed in that specific kind of knowledge, I just found it a bit wierd that something as important to the war as that was not in any way linked to said war in game. If Leoreth decided not to include such events, I was not yet aware.

 

[soul-breathing]

Woah, I just noticed you're from China. I'm honestly a little shocked I didn't pick up on it sooner, XD.

How are you accessing this site? Does China not block it? Given the little info I've heard about it's "Great Firewall" as it's called it sounds like it blocks most positive discussions of democracy, though I may be misremembering or confusing it for something else. Is this site just not on their radar? Is the civ series okay despite it's usage of democracy as a civic in basically all the games?

Sorry if it's a lot of questions, China in particular is just a very interesting topic from a internet usage perspective, you know what with how internet censorship's been a pretty big topic not just pertaining to China but even also to terrorism and extremism here in the west.

We talk about DoC, don't out of topic. I can only tell you, every one can enter cfc and github in China, they are not blocked.

 

[soul-breathing]

Leo, for the map of China, I have a suggestion. Regions such as Manchuria and South of Yangtze River are uncultivated for a long time in Ancient China, before 1000ad or 1200ad, those regions have only a small population. So I suggest those regions could be added many plots of Tundra/rainforests/marshes, and turn to hills/plains or add some food resource after some year(could be 1200ad or even 1500ad, the effects are just like the New World changes in 1600ad). What do you think about it? It can make China not so powerful before Mongolia invades.

 

[1SDANi]

We talk about DoC, don't out of topic. I can only tell you, every one can enter cfc and github in China, they are not blocked.

Okay sorry, and that's actually really good to hear. It'd be horrible if a country with as big of a population could not enjoy the wonders of civ.

Off topic over.

 

[LAF1994]

Regarding the usage of Mountain tiles, I'd suggest renaming the Hill tiles to 'Highlands' and the Mountain tiles to 'Ranges'. Then, Mountain tiles would only be used as part of mountain ranges that constitute a significant geographic barrier (e.g. the Alps, Caucasus) but not for 'lonely' mountain plots (e.g. in Iran, Japan) which would become Highlands.
Also, it might make sense to change the Nile and Tigris-Euphrates regions to Plains/Floodplains rather than Desert/Floodplains, with the Nile Delta being Grasslands/Floodplains. Similarly, the coastal regions of China where the Yangtze and Yellow rivers exit should be Grasslands/Floodplains (and Plains/Floodplains further up river). Also, some extra grain resources could be added in Egypt (e.g. in their starting capital radius) and Mesopotamia.

 

[J422]

Is the only way to erase a resource in WB the erase button ? Because it automatically erases the rivers, and those are a ***** to recreate afterwards.

I wanted to move around the resources in france a little, but I only flattened the massif central, which really doesn't deserve a peak, and added the Léman lake : )

 

[Leoreth]

Leo, for the map of China, I have a suggestion. Regions such as Manchuria and South of Yangtze River are uncultivated for a long time in Ancient China, before 1000ad or 1200ad, those regions have only a small population. So I suggest those regions could be added many plots of Tundra/rainforests/marshes, and turn to hills/plains or add some food resource after some year(could be 1200ad or even 1500ad, the effects are just like the New World changes in 1600ad). What do you think about it? It can make China not so powerful before Mongolia invades.

Yes, I think that is necessary to prevent players from growing too large too early. For southern China, a combination of jungle/rainforest and lack of resources that spawn later should suffice. Maybe there should also be spawns for cities to represent Yue peoples that could offer some resistance to settlement. Same for Manchuria with marshes and less fertile terrain. I would like to introduce a terrain type for this purpose that is more geographically accurate than Tundra.

Regarding the usage of Mountain tiles, I'd suggest renaming the Hill tiles to 'Highlands' and the Mountain tiles to 'Ranges'. Then, Mountain tiles would only be used as part of mountain ranges that constitute a significant geographic barrier (e.g. the Alps, Caucasus) but not for 'lonely' mountain plots (e.g. in Iran, Japan) which would become Highlands.
Also, it might make sense to change the Nile and Tigris-Euphrates regions to Plains/Floodplains rather than Desert/Floodplains, with the Nile Delta being Grasslands/Floodplains. Similarly, the coastal regions of China where the Yangtze and Yellow rivers exit should be Grasslands/Floodplains (and Plains/Floodplains further up river). Also, some extra grain resources could be added in Egypt (e.g. in their starting capital radius) and Mesopotamia.

With a map of this size those mountains e.g. in Persia are alright and actually become necessary in my opinion to give some texture to it. Also I see no reason to turn the Nile and Mesopotamian river beds to anything other than desert.

Is the only way to erase a resource in WB the erase button ? Because it automatically erases the rivers, and those are a ***** to recreate afterwards.

Select resources in terrain mode and right click.

 

[ngazi]

May I ask what you refer to when you mentioned the lake around Hangzhou? Thousand Islet Lake or some lake other?

I didn't have a specific lake in mind, just a general idea that southern Chinese cities have more resources and less tiles than northern cities. Mountains and water tiles would give them less tiles, and also hills and rivers to slow down movement. Ideally the north would be much stronger in earlier eras and have more hammers, while the south would be slightly stronger in later eras and have more commerce. For resources I think marble should be in Dali)

I like what you did with southern China, especially Nanjing is amazing, but I wonder if Shandong, the Hexi corridor, and Shanhai pass could be more pronounced. I'm no map expert but it looks a bit weird. Although Beijing is separated from the sea by Tianjin, I think on this scale Beijing is still on that coastal tile. What do you think? Also Hainan probably would be connected by land at this scale. It would help Guangdong's shape.

Also hesitate if to change a peak in Sikkim to hill, I prefer not to change, because in the East there is also a route from Tibet to India(along the Yarlung Zangbo River).

I think it's good to add that route. There is also a route from western Tibet to the western Tarim basin which shaped the rise of the Tibetan empire?

Adding another land tile 1N of the current Tsingtao and moving the city to that tile would probably look more realistic.

Agreed.

 

[Leoreth]

I agree that Beijing could just as well be on the coast.

I also like the idea of China being production focused in the north and transitioning to being commerce focused when settling the south.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

I agree that Beijing could just as well be on the coast.

I also like the idea of China being production focused in the north and transitioning to being commerce focused when settling the south.

Even though putting Peking on the coastal tile is possibly slightly more geographically accurate vis-a-vis it's real life position, it was never a port city, and putting it inland would make China's main ports be southern cities like Canton and Shanghai, which would be more historically accurate.

Of course, it also depends on how @Leoreth wants the Chinese game to play out - China starts in Sian IIRC, and they tend to settle Peking before any southern cities as of the last official release (I don't use GitHub). If you think it would be good for China to have a port early on, it would probably be good to make Peking coastal, but I think it would probably be better for Peking to not be coastal, in order to prevent ancient China from discovering a lot of other civilizations too quickly.