Alternative Timelines

[robomani]

Well for new tech tree you could look at Master of mana, it have a spell tree that use different breaker than tech and is separated in 3 tab that you chose what to learn and get one of them depending of a % influenced by the mana you posses.

http://www.masterofmana.com/

 

[Necratoid]

@Hydromancer: Okay... now I'm utterly baffled on how your actually expecting to do alternate timelines, at all. Try giving us an over view of the basics of how you plan on making this work. Apparently your thinking is completely off kilter from mine... and I'm not sure what specifically your planning on doing... which makes it awful hard to comment on.

From what this thread has shown so far, alternate timelines requires:

1) New *Ages*: These must be defined and the way to activate them turned on.
2) New Techs: Which used for instituting the specific features of the *Ages*. The alternate method involves adding in hundreds of bonus to the dozens of existing techs and having the turn on and off dependant on the 'alternate timelines' tag being clicked.
3) a disablable 'Alternate Timelines' options: That or lots and lots of new game options under a submenu lable 'alternate timelines' in the custom game menu.

The biggest issue is your making Alternate timelines an add on option rather than a separate mod. This is the area that seems to be causing you issues. Personally I think its less work to make C2C: alternate timelines a separate mod from the vanila C2C. If everyone like certain features you can intigrate them into the main version.

All this is mainly ease of interface issues.
---

The only really new things I suggested was making certain techs require a project(s) to be built before they can be researched, no project that *Age* never happened. Thus the techs can't be researched. Which unless something truely odd comes up should be the same thing as adding previously researched tech requirements to a tech. Making projects require a wonder(s)/ tech(s)/ building(s) to is mostly existant. The projects themselves are what count as the trigger flag for the bonus of that *Age*. Again the specifics of the *Age* are a separate issue.

Again this is why I asked if projects had any particular restrictions unquie to them. Making mutually excusive projects that bind you to a particular *Age* of an Era (Ancient, Medevil, Modern) I suggested 3 *Age* paths, at least, per era one of which is the core vanila version. All the *Age* paths end up at the same group/single tech that advance to the next era.

To keep thing move level, once unlocked every tech can be researched by anyone (or at least those that are in diplomatic contact with someone in one of the noncore *Ages* of any particular) once it is unlocked... however with out the project you don't have access to most of the unquie features of that age. You do get cross pollination bonuses for learning/acquiring techs from other *Age* paths. Knowing the tech will give you access to promotions for fighting aginst that type of unit as well.

 

[rightfuture]

I think it's important to focus on what we all agree on. and what is possible. That way we are united on the same page, and will see more ideas in the positive and constructive direction that we are aimed.
Allowing for extended discussion will get us on that same page, and may point out a better way.

Developing a concrete and flexible idea will make more things possible.

What if scenarios are the some of the most interesting things to explore. That is why people love civ iv and c2c; alternate explorations of history or WhatIf's. Connecticut Yankees in Genghis Khan's Court. Gunpowder in ancient Egypt.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Hydromancer: Okay... now I'm utterly baffled on how your actually expecting to do alternate timelines, at all. Try giving us an over view of the basics of how you plan on making this work. Apparently your thinking is completely off kilter from mine... and I'm not sure what specifically your planning on doing... which makes it awful hard to comment on.

The core elements would be much like how we have the megafuana stuff now. You get a building that unlocks new types of units. How you get these buildings is still under discussion, should it be from wonders? wonders that unlock techs? Building that unlock tech that unlock civics?

In all honestly nothing is set in stone yet for the alternative timelines. They ave been at the bottom of my todo list for quite some time since they are like the icing on the cake. We still need to finish making the layers of the cake before we add alternate timelines to them, especially when it involves retro-space since the galactic era is not even in place yet.

In short I cannot respond on stuff I don't even know yet.

 

[Necratoid]

Fair enough. I hope someone who actually understands what projects are cabable of chimes in here. at some point. However at the very least a project should be able to open a new, otherwise nonresearchable tech to open things up at the very least. National or world wronders make specific unit buildable.

The 'Core plus *Ages* in and *Era*' model was more about tech focuses during certain times. The Megafauna thing that exists is all about alternate mounted unit.... Steampunk/Cogpunk is about early robots and other mechcogized units. My main theory is that by focusing on certain fields of study (via wonders and such) you don't bother with say human foot soldiers... after all the ancient world has a few too many reports of legendary not-quite-men troops to be the the silent in combat immortals of the Persians.

That doesn't even cover Talos... the Greek legend of a golem... or battlemech that patroled an island and sunk huge amounts of ship via rock tossing. Yes, I did just point out that the ancient era had rumours of CIvs using unmanned warfare civic.

 

[Hydromancerx]

That doesn't even cover Talos... the Greek legend of a golem...

I thought the Golem was Hebrew.

 

[Hankc]

My experience is that "golem" in common usage usually refers to any walking statue kind of thing. The golem is originally Hebrew, however. In common usage Talos would be a golem.

 

[rightfuture]

Here is an interesting article I found on the internet about genres that aren't explored enough in video games. Could be useful in where to plot expanding on in the future. Please remember these for the future!

7 Settings In Video Games That Ought To Be Used More
http://gamingbolt.com/7-settings-in-video-games-that-ought-to-be-used-more

Summary:
1.Medieval
2.Dinosaurs - very popular - consider it for a optional alternate timeline at some point, especially now that you have some 3d models for them.
3.Cyberpunk
4. Westerns
5. Post Nuclear War
6. Noir
7. Pirates

I think it is worth checking it out!

 

[steampunk1880]

if dinosaur species survived the sixty five million years to be around at the same time as humans, assuming humans survived at all, they'd look nothing like dinosaurs from the fossil record. Probably the only way we can get dinosaurs in this mod is if we make them like with genetic artistry in the biotech thread.

there's something about post apocalyptic age in the OP somehow leading back to the stone or dark ages implying having to redo all that stuff but i have no idea how that could possibly work

cyberpunk we are working on. CyberTECH really so we can have postcyberpunk stuff in there too.

all that other stuff doesn't sound like it needs to be an alternate history, or really belongs in a civilization game at all like noir. Unless you can, like, build a private eye building which consumes new Cheap Whiskey and Dames resources to produce espionage points and hit movies.

 

[Necratoid]

I suggested this before... but as you can't unlearn techs the trick to a new stone age would be to canabalise an old map and remake a new one based on that old map. This would be accessed by starting in a specific age (Post Apoc or neo stone age) and picking a save file to take appart. Someone would have to make that, but that seems the easy way.

That list itself is mostly covered by the Fallout games... if you count the deathclaws as dinosaurs anyway.

 

[EldrinFal]

I suggested this before... but as you can't unlearn techs the trick to a new stone age would be to canabalise an old map and remake a new one based on that old map. This would be accessed by starting in a specific age (Post Apoc or neo stone age) and picking a save file to take appart. Someone would have to make that, but that seems the easy way.

That list itself is mostly covered by the Fallout games... if you count the deathclaws as dinosaurs anyway.

Yeah, it would be tough. For something that extreme, the closest I could think of would be having an Era tag for buildings & units, and then disabling everything in Eras after Medieval (etc). It wouldn't account for tech bonuses to Tile Improvements though.

 

[Necratoid]

It would also get screwy if you researched up so said era again... the second you recovered the first tech things would go all wonky again.

Hense why a map canablizer was the best, if hard, thing I could think of for that effect. It takes the map, levels the cities, alters the terrain based on what caused the apoc in the first place. Turns a bunker into a city or a crappy small city in the boondocks or on an island into some random pop one city with random stuff working and some heavily damage troops and worker units each.

At that point your going to spend a lot of time gaining enough cash to scrub fallout off squares and scavenging enough stuff to regain past tech levels and gain enough supplies to make this work again. Really a different mod bases on C2C. Though it would likely make great use of pick up equipment (like the sword parts in that ice age mod)... you only get X amount of enviromental suits and one worker with the fallout clean up kit. Other consumable equipment grants upgraded buildings when sacrificed and sacking/burning cities give a chance to regain all the equpment back to bring to your home lands... random barbs spawn with equipment and ruins of past cities become nessassary to control to be competive. They'd spawn random treasure and depletable resource 'treasure' units.

Complex but fun.... and may be a different add-on mod. The map canabalizer is the only real new things I can think of here.

 

[Dumanios]

Yeah. I'm not sure how we could even represent a post-apocalyptic era. :/

It is nice to see I was able to contribute to the mod.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Yeah. I'm not sure how we could even represent a post-apocalyptic era. :/

It is nice to see I was able to contribute to the mod.

Well the way i see it done is it was done say via forced civics. Since you cannot change civics for say 10 turns then you would be stuck in an apocalyptic era. Within this time specific buildings would be disabled since you changed civics. Thus limiting you to apocalyptic buildings. Note after the 10 turns you could choose to return to the normal civics or stay as a post-apocalyptic era.

Note that golden ages would allow you to get out of the post apocalyptic era without anarchy just like how other civics do it.

EDIT: Now the question become what buildings should be disabled in an apocalyptic?

 

[Dumanios]

Maybe during an apocalyptic era the more expensive buildings like universities, factories, casinos, and such would be disabled.

Also, I've released a unit that might be a good future era guy.

 

[steampunk1880]

What would happen if the apocalypse civic would provide free a building with a 1:1 chance of melting down? Would it melt down every turn until you managed to switch away?

 

[Hydromancerx]

What would happen if the apocalypse civic would provide free a building with a 1:1 chance of melting down? Would it melt down every turn until you managed to switch away?

Or just make the nuclear power plant have a high risk of melt down when under Apocalypse civic.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Just a suggestion to honor the date:

We really should include a Zombie Apocalypse version someday

 

[steampunk1880]

Or just make the nuclear power plant have a high risk of melt down when under Apocalypse civic.

I was thinking more on the lines of rampant devastation, destroyed buildings, decimated populations. Fallout EVERYWHERE. Yeah if it was a free building-->melted down/was destroyed-->given to you again-->melted down again next turn that would be really...um...bad. Maybe 1 in 5 or even 1 in 10 would be better. As it stands I don't habitually build anything that "has a small chance of melting down" because that small chance is always too high and then you're stuck with global warming forever. If it just affected nuclear plants then I would be pretty much untouched.

And the "building" wouldn't be a building, per se, so much as a tag. Like goods. Or really more like Plague in the Rhye's family of games. I'd call it "You Maniacs! You Blew It Up!"

 

[EldrinFal]

Just a suggestion to honor the date:

We really should include a Zombie Apocalypse version someday

I think we definitely should An event that triggers spawned units would be great.

I'd also like to see a Rise of the Apes event, which would be somewhat similar, but the apes could actually go off and become a new nation. Can you imagine the monkey leaderhead with the Montezuma gestures controlling it?!