Am I wrong to respect the person in my avatar ... Heinz Guderian ?

[Ataxerxes]

I think Guderian is reasonably OK. If we don't allow Guderian, I can't see thinking Robert E. Lee, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Tokugawa, etc. are OK.

About half of the Civ leaders have worse crimes than Guderian. Admittedly, he fought for an evil cause, but he was more interested in German Nationalism than the Nazi Ideology. Given the climate in Germany since WWI, it would be surprising if he wasn't influenced by some of the propoganda about Germany's treatment by the rest of the world. I'd like to think I'd do better if I was in his position, but can't be sure.

 

[Violetta]

It don't make you a Nazi.

 

[ParkCungHee]

It don't make you a Nazi.

That don't make a sentence.

 

[LightSpectra]

I think Guderian is reasonably OK. If we don't allow Guderian, I can't see thinking Robert E. Lee, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Tokugawa, etc. are OK.

Yes, though I'm going to say that I don't know enough about Tokugawa to lump him in with the rest with certainty.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Tokugawa most certainly is not okay.
Don't invade me bro.

 

[r16]

I don't see the relevance of any of that post to the thread at hand, though it might be a response to some off-hand remark that I'm not going to dig through four pages to find.

will take this as a response to my post exactly above yours and will hasten to add ı have not chosen to take active side on either side of the argument . German generals did many mistakes and caused enough misery alright but that still will not make them automatic Nazis . On the other hand , past and current people who espouse "extremist" views have used the German efficiency as an entry point for their propaganda . Which is not really acceptable , though liking Heinz Guderian in any capacity should not make anyone automatically dislikeable . Arguments do naturally flare up as a result and words hurled ; in times quite unfair . The Franz in picture is the old king right ? That was lied to because he would have tried to reach a more peaceful outcome in 1914 ? Then he was the last "true Roman" as it was understood at the time , and believe it or not , calling out to everybody here , it was a necessity to have a mistress . Even less proveable than my military theses , but alas so .

the world , as repeatedly said , is a weird place . Statemanship is something that sees trickery and many other disreputable actions as breath and bread . Just read in the newspapers today that a certain country of high morals declared previously classified papers that sort of proves they had no plans against yet another country , though the target country has already published tapes of 10 years before the newly declared papers . State interests get people lying to the faces of other people , and others to kill others , as effectively as possible . Can not be helped . History is one of the least areas where one should argue for morals .

ı have always had a soft spot for the poster below , though America still comes ahead , could anyone imagine a million Jews marching in front of the Branderburger gate in a Third Reich of 1960s for cultural rights ?

 

[Dachs]

Would there even have been a million Jews left by the sixties?

 

[r16]

why , that is exactly the point . US gets away with so many things , as its alternatives have been so bland , if that is something you can define , say , state planned and conducted industrial scale murder .

 

[Dachs]

Would that all of the other people with anti-American vendettas had such well-thought-out ideas and well-constructed sentences as you.

 

[r16]

ahh , very nice ...


because they defeated the Nazi Germany , Americans thought the whole world had to follow them as they were so democratic in the first place . Because they dropped a couple of bombs on Serbians , Americans thought they had conquered the hearts and minds of the Muslims , only because in the beginning they had agreed to soothe the West Germans after they were so harshly snubbed by the Yankee/Ruskee condomium that they could not invade Poland or Czechoslovakia anymore and a retired admiral actually said they had gone into Somalia to avoid saving Bosnians , early . This preferability is so problematic . It gets them to spots where they should have thought more about avoiding .

american self confidence in being the blue eyed boy and always staying so waters the eyes . They know the world would rather prefer them to anybody else and it makes the American mischief makers doubly cynical , they believe as long as they can control their own public affairs they will get away with anything ; they are so bad_ss that everybody has to fear them because they will just flash a smile while devastating anything in their path and the world will cheer them on . Anything that suggests there will be no cheers gets swamped by lots of LOLs . The Atlantic boomer line was laughed out by the suggestions that laymen can not differentiate between an oil rig and a Typhoon . The thing is rated 3 minutes from first launch , 7 minutes to last impact , mind you . But no, nobody can dare , the US has the sympathy . They can do anything they please . Say , every single American service personnel "knows" they just popped one to scare the slopes .
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Just like the first foreign act of the 2001 folks was the accidental sinking of a Japanese "spyship" , with millionaire beneficiaries of USS Missouri at the helm to boost . Now it is obviously clear that it was merely a passenger plane , (but in the eyes of Americans , it is merely a coverup , they can pop missiles and everybody should just go to hell ) . And all the experts are waiting to latch onto the first idiot who will talk of parted combustors to avoid the spirals dance as the time vindow to catch the US counter value on the ground is .... ; hey nobody can cross the oceans anyway ... Yeah , the experts are always , .................................................. so smug . It'scold case but the Russians , the bearish thugs who have always threatened the free , humanistic and righteous West with nuclear extinction have already "signed" that it is likely a Trident from an Ohio as they are careful , real careful with missiles , with being right, or the big stick theory . That thing might fall onto somewhere , you know . Yeah ? Remind you , the Russians do have a marker bouy , of foreign manufacture . Which was silenced on Peter the Great as the Russians already knew where Kursk was lying . Ain't this whole quoteable enough , though when one sees discussion as veiled acceptance of whatever the mighty wants or else , clear soundbites will be muffled . Always have , maybe will be ... though one might really test . Just how strong the counter value is ?

anti-American , who me ? ı have a starfleet and just love the Klingon chicks . Hence nobody ever taketh me seriously .

 

[Esckey]

Nothing wrong with respecting or admiring a man or person. The problem comes when you aspire to be like them.


And don't let anyone tell you otherwise

 

[LightSpectra]

Nothing wrong with respecting or admiring a man or person. The problem comes when you aspire to be like them.


And don't let anyone tell you otherwise

Saying "don't let anyone tell you otherwise" is the worst possible thing you could ever do for a person's mind. It's essentially asking them to discard all reason in favor of trust; which is even dumber in this situation as your only position of authority is being a guy on the internet.

 

[r16]

have received a warning and apologies are in order as ı was not aware it was actually against Asians . First paragraph following is the mail ı have sent to Birdjaguar who is fully justified .

"agreed , it was a reference to Secretary of State Clinton promising fullscale action against North Koreans . Will avoid using it , at least in the form that must be obviously offending . "


my "anti-Americanism" is actually a leftover from my semi-serious days in a serious strategy site . As the friends of Iran deleted any kind of rant against Teheran , only the Americana related sections remained :

"fans of Civ would recognize to play the nuclear card one needs to have the nuke first , yet the Iranians are out there to talk global security . Paid friends of America, here in Turkey , were all agog on how Washington and Teheran were so close and they might yet come to terms so soon ; all smug they gave away the game to those of us who don't have the vision and the strategic depth . Yet another gem from the brilliance that defines American thinking , this stuff is a result of Sept.2001 and involves a nuclear Iran ,a benevolent USA and future reductions of certain numbers . ( Guess what, two -fortytwo is not the Ten Commandments , but .) As such , say , Russian offers of radars in Azerbeycan is not acceptable .Since there is no threat they might search for , and yet the area behind 'em would be a future zone for US as an area to be denied to aerospace applications gathering steam . PVO-Strany would have none of this nonsence ; who would have believed the "Chinese" striking EU ? The missile defence then becomes an opening for Uncle Sam to break Montreaux , they are showing us the death to convince us to accept malaria as a cure . And nobody actually knows what secret clause from 1936 bugs US so much . USN is better off patrolling its test sites would be translation of the sentence "Ruskees are at sea " (ı know , ı know it is passanger jetliner ... Dreamkillers ! ) We , the dreaming idiots , though, will rest assured the sisters of D-7 , of Korean fame are already in theater . Means the Turkish Navy will the only one flying those Standarts in the Black Sea .

this Triad must end . Though we will be all here to see all will be for nought and there will be assurances that we will get used to it . It is yet to be seen that we don't get used to anything


P.S. Turkey out of Footpad NOW "

is the sort of thing ı would post and it would be trimmed down , leaving tinted remains . ı am not a bogey per se ; and the tree hugger , whose relevance can be understood if only one can survive reading all my posts , would object to that anyhow .

the only thing that has the remotest chance saving this post from labelled spam is the "gem" . It is a tradition of the smartest to be such fools that they devote so much to engineering the enemy that they loose the sight of true potentials . Heinz Guderian would not reach the Channel in May 1939 , or '41 . '40 was a vintage year and it just knocked out the Allies flat .

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