Amani and +4 amenities promotion

[historix69]

Life would be easier if the amenity system would reflect map size or allow more than one copy per lux.
It is strange that a lux gives 4 amenities (1 for 4 cities) both on small maps where you play with a few cities as well as on arbitrary large maps where you can build empires with 100+ cities. 4 cities use a lux and 96+ cities do not use it, even if you have dozens of unused copies of that lux in store.
If you could assign additional copies of each lux, the +4 amenity bonus from Amani would be more likely to benefit the city directly and give a nice production/loyalty bonus.

I think it would be sufficient to get the 4 amenities from the first lux of a kind and maybe +2 per additional copies. But I don't see where to allow (mod) additional copies in xml/sql code.
(You can change the 4 amenities to a higher value, but this is not the same as using multiple copies.)

 

[Victoria]

...what I'm seeing in this thread is we're really not sure how it works, how it's supposed to work, if it's working, or if it's not.

I <3 Civ6 systems sometimes.

Some amenities are applied only locally, some globally. There is no point in building an entertainment district with buildings for a big city if the happiness gets spread.
The logic of an Amani global amenity is lost on me.

 

[historix69]

Place Amani in a size 1 or 2 city and test if the effect is local or global.

 

[Uberfrog]

The logic of an Amani global amenity is lost on me.

It also contradicts the entire design philosophy of Governors. The whole point of Governors is to boost something in (or in a few cases, around) a particular city. This leads me to believe that the intended behaviour is exactly as described, and whoever implemented it just didn't factor in the redistribution of luxuries, and the consequent dilution of the promotion's effect.

 

[Victoria]

I'll check this in about 1/2 an hour when my partner leaves the house (I'm supposed to be working shhhhhh)

 

[Victoria]

... Well its working as expected in Firetuner. They are definately local amenities. No point testing CS placement... but I will anyway. it would be nice if your ally got +6 loyalty from happiness.

And just for the record... here is the city state after 1 lux

2 lux

3 lux

And here when I increase Bradford to 9 pop

You will see from the next post I do that local are applied first and then global smooth cities out for even distribution but do not take into accout happiness.

 

[Uberfrog]

... Well its working as expected in Firetuner. They are definately local amenities. No point testing CS placement... but I will anyway. it would be nice if your ally got +6 loyalty from happiness.
View attachment 493087

But in this example you appear to have no luxuries to redistribute. I think the issue is not that Amani's amenities aren't being applied to the correct city, but that it leads to a distribution of other amenities away from that city. So the effect is not a net +4 amenities to Liverpool (which I would argue the description implies), but effectively a +4 amenities split across all your cities by the algorithm as it reallocates luxuries accordingly.

 

[Victoria]

But in this example you appear to have no luxuries to redistribute. I think the issue is not that Amani's amenities aren't being applied to the correct city, but that it leads to a distribution of other amenities away from that city. So the effect is not a net +4 amenities to Liverpool (which I would argue the description implies), but effectively a +4 amenities split across all your cities by the algorithm as it reallocates luxuries accordingly.

I was updating the post while you replied, have another look. However you are right... I add another city to make it 5....
So local applied first and then smoothing by global after.. Amani does keep her 4 local

Here I add a couple more cities and give Liverpool and ED and Arena. Note: correct distribution only happens at the end of the turn even though it tries to before that.
This indicates that Bradfords size or unhappiness gives it the extra.

The fact that tall cities do not get a fair share of global amenities when they have some local does not ecourage tall cities.

London strangely down to 1 here while Bradford has 3.

 

[Victoria]

With regard to the CS.. Here is Amani in a CS I have 6 envoys in and am suze.

I re-assign Amani and ... tada! Amenities affect a CS
It also looks like Babylon gets +2 loyalty per envoy.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

I was updating the post while you replied, have another look. However you are right... I add another city to make it 5....
So local applied first and then smoothing by global after.. Amani does keep her 4 local
View attachment 493092

Interesting. But why does London get 4 amenities and not Bradford while it is in need of amenities?

 

[Victoria]

Interesting. But why does London get 4 amenities and not Bradford while it is in need of amenities?

Your Palace gives 1 local amenity... your capital starts the game with it.
Yes this thread has turned out very interesting, learnt some good stuff.
I'll post a link to this thread in the amenity guide comments

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

Your Palace gives 1 local amenity... your capital starts the game with it.
Yes this thread has turned out very interesting, learnt some good stuff.

I kinda was expecting that, though the last image in that post (see below) was a bit misleading for me. I didn't realise London had 2 pop there.

View attachment 493096

 

[historix69]

Your Palace gives 1 local amenity... your capital starts the game with it.
Yes this thread has turned out very interesting, learnt some good stuff.
I'll post a link to this thread in the amenity guide comments

As far as I know all cities have a free amenity allowing 2 population at content level. The capital has 1 free amenity + 1 amenity from palace, so allowing 2 happy or 4 content population. The free amenity is not shown in the ingame tables in your posts above but can be found in GlobalParameters.xml :

<Replace Name="CITY_AMENITIES_FOR_FREE" Value="1" />

 

[Uberfrog]

You're doing the Lord's work, @Victoria.

So if they're applied locally first, and luxuries are divvied up evenly, oblivious to how happy the cities are, then it should mean that Amani is indeed working as intended. But that doesn't explain OP's problem...

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

You're doing the Lord's work, @Victoria.

So if they're applied locally first, and luxuries are divvied up evenly, oblivious to how happy the cities are, then it should mean that Amani is indeed working as intended. But that doesn't explain OP's problem...

What I understand is that first the local amenities (of Amani or palace etc) are put in place, then the amenities of luxuries are distributed evenly. So the amenities from luxes that were given to that city are now given to other cities, I think.

 

[Victoria]

You're doing the Lord's work, @Victoria.

So if they're applied locally first, and luxuries are divvied up evenly, oblivious to how happy the cities are, then it should mean that Amani is indeed working as intended. But that doesn't explain OP's problem...

And that's the crux of the issue, Firetuner often works as the lord intended but the game does not.
For example I can get carriers to deploy fighter patrols in firetuner but not in game.
Without seeing the OP's game I cannot comment further currently beyond saying the next task the lord has set me is to go into a game and try it. I do know we all make misjudgements and everything here should still be considered dubious until tested in-game. The more people that keep an eye out and report like the most venerated OP here the more we eventually get to the bottom of things. Just as I can be mistaken, so can the OP and also the OP may have encountered a bug.
We have a rough idea of intention now.
We check play and make more assumptions (without code that's all everything is)
The more we hoard, the less we guess.

There is some indication some care may be given to happiness.

 

[historix69]

Oh WOW... I just discovered something ... it looks like happiness affects city defence... +2 for ecstatic.

Are you sure it is from happiness and not from the ED district?
Compare with other values in your posts #26 and #28.

 

[Victoria]

So the amenities from luxes that were given to that city are now given to other cities, I think.

yes, it seems not that clear cut, in the last screenshot the capital is left purely with its local palace amenity while Bradford has gained 3/4 of a lux.
We are not there.. maybe we will never be but we have enough to realise that big cities suffer under this design.

Are you sure it is from happiness and not from the ED district?
Compare with the values in your post #26.

Well spotted... my bad will update, tx.

 

[Art Morte]

In OP's game Amani's promotion certainly didn't work as advertised.

I had about 10 cities. I didn't check the city's amenities where I put Amani in before placing her there (and waiting till she was established), but I didn't have negative amenities anywhere, it must have been 0 or 1 amenities. With Amani established I thought it would climb up to 3 or more, but it did not, I'm 100% on this.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

And that's the crux of the issue, Firetuner often works as the lord intended but the game does not.
For example I can get carriers to deploy fighter patrols in firetuner but not in game.
Without seeing the OP's game I cannot comment further currently beyond saying the next task the lord has set me is to go into a game and try it. I do know we all make misjudgements and everything here should still be considered dubious until tested in-game. The more people that keep an eye out and report like the most venerated OP here the more we eventually get to the bottom of things. Just as I can be mistaken, so can the OP and also the OP may have encountered a bug.
We have a rough idea of intention now.
We check play and make more assumptions (without code that's all everything is)
The more we hoard, the less we guess.

There is some indication some care may be given to happiness.

You are right about the fact that you need more details from OP. But I have a guess of what could have been the case, which could be easily tested out. Though I have no firetuner installed or R&F. It can also be a bug.
In your tests the other cities had not much luxury amenities that could be distributed out. Think of the following situation:

- 8 cities each requiring 6 or more amenities (Cities A-H, with A the capital)
- the civ has 8 unique luxuries and only local amenities from palace, "1 free amenity" for each city and Amani in city B and no further amenities from any other source

I expect in this case the following will occur, first the local hapiness is considered:
City: amount of amenities
A: 2 (Palace + 1 free amenity )
B: 5 (Amani + 1 free amenity )
C-H: 1 (1 free amenity )

Then the lux amenities are distributed step by step such that cities with lowest amenities get them first:

Spoiler Steps :

( for ease the luxuries are distributed alphabetically, which I don't know how the game handles it: randomly or sequentially to the cities with lowest amenities)
Lux 1 distributed:
A: 2 (Palace + 1 free amenity )
B: 5 (Amani + 1 free amenity )
C-F: 2 (1 free amenity + 1 lux)
G-H: 1 (1 free amenity )

Lux 2 distributed:
A: 3 (Palace + 1 free amenity + 1lux)
B: 5 (Amani + 1 free amenity )
C: 3 (1 free amenity + 2 lux)
D-H: 2 (1 free amenity + 1 lux)

Lux 3 distributed:
A: 3 (Palace + 1 free amenity + 1lux)
B: 5 (Amani + 1 free amenity )
C-G: 3 (1 free amenity + 2 lux)
H: 2 (1 free amenity + 1 lux)

Lux 4 distributed:
A: 4 (Palace + 1 free amenity + 2lux)
B: 5 (Amani + 1 free amenity )
C-D: 4 (1 free amenity + 3 lux)
E-H: 3 (1 free amenity + 2 lux)

Lux 5 distributed:
A: 4 (Palace + 1 free amenity + 2lux)
B: 5 (Amani + 1 free amenity )
C-H: 4 (1 free amenity + 3 lux)

Lux 6 distributed:
A: 5 (Palace + 1 free amenity + 3 lux)
B: 5 (Amani + 1 free amenity )
C-E: 5 (1 free amenity + 4 lux)
F-H: 4 (1 free amenity + 3 lux)

Lux 7 distributed:
A: 6 (Palace + 1 free amenity + 4lux)
B: 5 (Amani + 1 free amenity )
C-H: 5 (1 free amenity + 4 lux)

Lux 8 distributed:
A: 6 (Palace + 1 free amenity + 4 lux)
B: 6 (Amani + 1 free amenity + 1 lux)
C-E: 6 (1 free amenity + 5 lux)
F-H: 5 (1 free amenity + 4 lux)

After distributing the luxurie amenities it will be as:
A: 6 (Palace + 1 free amenity + 4 lux)
B: 6 (Amani + 1 free amenity + 1 lux)
C-E: 6 (1 free amenity + 5 lux)
F-H: 5 (1 free amenity + 4 lux)

So if Amani hops now to another city, but not the capital, it still would have 6 (or 5 in case of city F-H) amenities. So it could be related to the ratio of local amenities to distributable amenities. If the distributable amenities are much larger, then such situations can occur. But I don't know about OP situation.

Edit: italic text added