Alexander's Hetaroi
Deity
Well my top pick, the Navajo, would too.
I'm just not too fond of representing Native America with a horse raiding nomadic civ, which is what the Sioux would be.
Americas
- Thread starter Henri Christophe
- Start date
I'm just not too fond of representing Native America with a horse raiding nomadic civ, which is what the Sioux would be.
Birch617
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2020
- Messages
- 235
I mean i do agree that the Seminole are the top contender to fill the Florida Peninsula, because other candidates like Calusa, Apalachee and Timucua have the barrier of language (still don't discard em cuz its possible to find related languages in the area, a similar case to what happened with the Mochica language and how its in state of recuperation by indigenous people), besides the Seminole the other tribe could be the Miccosukee, who once were part of the Seminole but they legally separated themself from the Seminole, they do have historical figures like Ar-pi-uck-i.
Henri Christophe
L'empereur
I would like to say more, I want Andrew Jackson as leader of USA to be able to defeat him with Black Seminole civ. Making historical revenge as a game purpose.
I think at least one native american as a horse raiding nomadic is necessary. I think the Sioux is the best option to fullfill this spot, but I'm open to listen to other ideas.
Alexander's Hetaroi
Deity
If I had to pick one, I'd pick the Comanche.
Patine
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2011
- Messages
- 11,108
This concept can get dicey, quickly.
Moderator Action: Please discuss the Civilizations and Leaders you would like to see without this type of historical context.
awesome
Meme Lord
I actually wouldn’t mind Easter eggs in the game, though. Like, if Julius Caesar and Cleopatra met each other, or if Washington and Allequippa met each other, there’s a chance of different things being said.
Actually, even without that in the game, I wouldn’t mind Allequippa being the leader of Iroquois.
Actually, even without that in the game, I wouldn’t mind Allequippa being the leader of Iroquois.
Henri Christophe
L'empereur
I don't understand why Andrew Jackson should be dicey. He is one of US president and his is old enought to be a civ leader.
Thanks to share it's knowledge, I never heard about him before. But I can't find nothing in the internet about this dude, just about one city called Aliquippa in Pensilvânia.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Been over this before. While the Lakotah and other members of the 'Seven Council Fires" (Ochethi Sakowin - all the Nadouessioux or 'Souix' tribes) are probably the first 'horse Indians' anybody thinks of, they were rather late to the horsey table: they adopted the horse and the culture associated with it (nomadic/raiding) only in the last 100 - 120 years of their independent existence, and they spent at least 450 years (estimated - there are indications that the rather loose 'Council Fires' political organization dates back to the 1300s) as pedestrian hunters and wild rice gatherers/cultivators.
By contrast, once they took up the horse the Comanches became the most completely mounted nomad group in North America, and the only native group that actually drove the European Frontier back - they virtually drove the Spanish, and later the Texian Americans - out of west Texas, drove out or annihilated every other native group in the area that didn't join them, and acted as the middle men for trade from New Mexico to Louisiana. They are one of only two native groups that learned how to, and practiced, selective breeding of horses to get the traits they most desired (the Nez Perce of Oregon are the other) and their ratio of horses to people was 3 - 5 times greater than either the Souix or the Cheyenne.
And their last leader, Quanah Parker, was one of the personally most successful native leaders, first running rings around the US Army and then making a peace that allowed him and others of the tribe to become successful cattle ranchers. In Parker's case, that included giving dinner parties for guests from as far away as Washington DC and making friends with his old enemy, Colonel MacKenzie of the US Army and turning him into an advocate for the natives in Washington.
Patine
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2011
- Messages
- 11,108
I'm not in concurrence of her being a good Iroquois leader over the typical options that usually come up (and, in one case, has appeared in Civ). She seems to only be significant as a provisioner and waystation operator for George Washington in the French and Indian and American Revolutionary Wars, and nothing else of note. Not nearly enough to make her a call-out for a good leader choice for the whole civ, especially one as robust in the historical records among Native American/First Nations ethnicities as the Iroquois, despite Washington's journals referring to her as a, "queen."
Patine
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2011
- Messages
- 11,108
The, "historical revenge," pairings concept is a dicey concept, is what I was referring to.
FishFishFish
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2021
- Messages
- 176
Because he signed the Indian Removal Act, which led to the Trail of Tears.
Moderator Action: Please comply with moderator warnings or this thread will be closed. Back to the topic of Civilizations and Leaders and away from "historical revenge" and Andrew Jackson.
Alexander's Hetaroi
Deity
Aliquippa is a she. If the Iroquois were to get a female leader I think Jigonhsasee would be a far more compelling leader.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Of course, going into the question of what the Sioux and general Siouan speaking people of the Upper Mississippi valley were up to in the 1300s opens the can of worm that is the Mississippian (and Mississippian-adjacent) inheritance (eg, cultures that weren't ethnicalky related to the Mississippians but who adopted many of their patterns; here, Oneonta, possibly Fort Ancient though that could be Algonquian too...and, yeah I did say can of worms) since there's a solid case that the more northerly Mississippian-influenced culture may correlate with the Siouan speaking people who inhabited the Ohio and Mississipoi valley to quasi-historical times.
bene_legionary
Searching for the daguerrotype of God
I've heard the Iroquois (Haudenosaunee) were a very matriarchal state, women were a leading part of political society. They were also more of a federation of tribes and had a complicated political system which involved the leaders of separate tribes, and had a system for admitting new tribes which happened during European colonisation. Very interesting, shame we never hear about them so much.
Patine
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2011
- Messages
- 11,108
Maybe YOU don't hear much about them...
bene_legionary
Searching for the daguerrotype of God
I'm sorry. Maybe we could talk more about it?
Last edited:
Patine
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2011
- Messages
- 11,108
It's just that, where I live (in Canada) the Iroquois (Haudenosaunee) are not at all an obscure topic of history or parlance, and mentioned, if not ubiquitously, notably often as First Nations go, along with Cree (including the Saulteaux), Miq'maq, Gwi\chin, and Haida, probably being the five most commonly mentioned I hear about in history and modern parlance (taking into account that Inuit are not a First Nation, by definition, but distinct).
bene_legionary
Searching for the daguerrotype of God
I don't live in Canada, but I wouldn't have said the same to you about the Maori even though I live in New Zealand.
Anyway, I thought it was interesting to mention and would be something to think about if the Iroquois are in Civ 7. Their federations, longhouses, matriarchial traditions are foreign to me. Same to you with Maori maraes. I live a few blocks from one in the city. Don't talk so condesendingly, not everyone hears about the Iroquois every week. At least tell us more about it.
Anyway, I thought it was interesting to mention and would be something to think about if the Iroquois are in Civ 7. Their federations, longhouses, matriarchial traditions are foreign to me. Same to you with Maori maraes. I live a few blocks from one in the city. Don't talk so condesendingly, not everyone hears about the Iroquois every week. At least tell us more about it.
