Amurite fun

[Merddyn]

Amurites weak ? Is there any other civ able to spawn mages as fast as they do ? With my clan of embers I have to wait many turns before my adepts can promote, and during that time they just sit around in my cities (apart from haste, and other minor spells).
Being able to produce directly mages with fire2 or wind2 seems like a good enougth advantage during mid game, even if they could use a little something during the early game

Not as hard as you think, though; All you need to do is get the Form of the Titan, a Great Commander for the +2 experience version (You can get a GC from getting a tech soon enough), and the three +2 experience civics; I did that last game, and I was essentially able to "build" mages. All my adepts started with 10 experience (and as I was playing the Sidar with a good number of Great Engineers, they got completed in one turn... Plus I had a really good coin income. Aaaanyway), so as soon as they were built I could promote them to mages.

By the way, 10 mages casting fireball at once? That's some scary stuff right there.

Edit:

On Summoner trait - I don't think it's a problem by itself. It's Summoner + Puppets that's the killer combo. Keelyn + Sorcery will crush anything at similar tech levels in my experience.

Here's an idea, (I've never played Balsarephs to know if this is already true or not, as my friend always plays them) why not make it so that creating puppets costs gold? Perhaps 1/3 of the cost to upgrade to whatever unit they're making a copy of? After all, I doubt there are no materials to create a puppet, and even if there are, could be something like material components in D&D. That way, the puppets, and the ability to make them isn't weakened, but the frequency of making them is limited. Also, the player has to have a good gold income economy to field them frequently, which also reduces their science rate, making it harder for them to get archmages if they're using them earlier on, and at the same time, to be able to upgrade to archmage, they have to hold off on their puppet creation for a time.

 

[rusty217]

To make the Amurites better at magic than any other civ, how about giving them a civ trait that gives all their units +5 spell damage and a 5% bonus to all summons strengths and also magic resistance.

This would make their magic more powerful than any other civ and would also allow them to resist their opponents mages easier. Which seems fitting for such a magic oriented society...

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

Here's an idea, (I've never played Balsarephs to know if this is already true or not, as my friend always plays them) why not make it so that creating puppets costs gold? Perhaps 1/3 of the cost to upgrade to whatever unit they're making a copy of? After all, I doubt there are no materials to create a puppet, and even if there are, could be something like material components in D&D. That way, the puppets, and the ability to make them isn't weakened, but the frequency of making them is limited. Also, the player has to have a good gold income economy to field them frequently, which also reduces their science rate, making it harder for them to get archmages if they're using them earlier on, and at the same time, to be able to upgrade to archmage, they have to hold off on their puppet creation for a time.

Neat idea, but it would probably kill the AI who'd either keep casting it every round for fun and bankrupt themselves or never cast it.

PS: I gave up on my Amurite game. I see what some people are saying now... they're not BAD... but they're kinda boring. Really sort of a one-note civ. Sure, you can have every unit casting spells and priests casting summons etc but in the end... those are things I've seen a hundred times before in previous games (when I'm not playing the amurites) so it feels like I'm micromanaging a horde of adepts... a fireball is a fireball regardless of whos casting it... so kinda boring.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

To make the Amurites better at magic than any other civ, how about giving them a civ trait that gives all their units +5 spell damage and a 5% bonus to all summons strengths and also magic resistance.

This would make their magic more powerful than any other civ and would also allow them to resist their opponents mages easier. Which seems fitting for such a magic oriented society...

But the Amurites aren't necessarily the best mages. Their philosophy is that everyone should be able to use magic. Their current training ability is very flavorful and powerful, although it requires some micromanagement.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The philosophy that everyone should be able to use magic is not widespread among the Amurites, only among Govannon and his students. Most are very secretive about magic, and require a lengthy and grueling apprenticeship period, for the few they accept, before anything important would be taught.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

So, ironically, lorewise they might even have less highly skilled mages than other civs?

 

[Niveras]

I've always felt the puppet mechanic of having a summoned unit with the caster's spells was more at home with the Amurites than Balseraphs. Specifically, they would be using familiars, through which the mage casts the spells at the cost of the familiar's own energy. Mechanically, this means the mage would summon a permanent familiar, but only one at a time, basically doubling all your casters.

I also think this makes more sense (albeit perhaps not at an unlimited range) than creating multiple duplicates of the caster and instilling it with his own full powers. Just because you can Dominate someone, for instance, doesn't mean you can snap your fingers and instill life in an inanimate object, and allow it to Dominate someone too. Having otherwise lifeless objects use magic also seems the domain of the Luichirp more than the Balseraphs.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

So, ironically, lorewise they might even have less highly skilled mages than other civs?

No, they still have the reputation of being the best so the best from other nations tend to immigrate there. Plus, they are genetically inclined to be great mages, as so many are are direct descendant from Kyorlin.

Most civs don't start training mages until their teens, while Amurites become adepts at about age 4 or 5.


While the mage guilds try to keep magic secret, they don't do a great job at this. Govannon likes making the job very hard on them. Most civs have no such mages trying to teach the masses. I believe it has been said that most Amurites have managed to learn at least 1 very basic spell. The elites try to put a stop to this, but Valledia stops them from doing very much since she thinks having her whole army know magic could be useful. (Valledia herself isn't very good at magic, at least by Amurites standards.)

 

[brucedecatz]

I have two more things to add:

1. Beelining for firebows is indeed a very strong strategy. (with getting education, writing, or even code of laws somewhere in the way) Hunters make good defenders early, can capture animals to supplement defense, and mining is a must tech. If there is copper, warriors make fine city defenders; if not, then the need for archers is more desperate anyway. But ones firebows hit the stage, that is going to turn the tide of the war in most cases. This does not make them as strong as the Sheaim or Hippus as an early rusher, but still solid.

2. One of the most undiscussed spell in game is probably chanter's "escape", and that makes chanters having the potential to be the best assassins in game. Sure, they are not sinister, nor raider. But in a border city defense, they can be more active and strike at the enemy catapults and adepts in enemy territory, cast escape and teleport, in the process earning combat 4 and commando (even being hasted by adepts). If the player gains 4-5 such units, it is rather harsh on the AI: those units will eventually earn mobility 1 and 2, running around in AI lands, not missing a single opportunity to strike, killing every mage and siege weapon (even assassin) in sight, and then teleport back to safety. The poor AI has no chance to produce, or at least to amass seige or arcane units. For the raiders civs to do this they almost have to trade an assassin for each unit they kill, because it is much harder for theirs to come back safely. It is not as game-changing as maelstorm and fireballs, and it is perhaps unflavourful, but it is a hell lot of fun.

 

[MrUnderhill]

2. One of the most undiscussed spell in game is probably chanter's "escape", and that makes chanters having the potential to be the best assassins in game. Sure, they are not sinister, nor raider. But in a border city defense, they can be more active and strike at the enemy catapults and adepts in enemy territory, cast escape and teleport, in the process earning combat 4 and commando (even being hasted by adepts). If the player gains 4-5 such units, it is rather harsh on the AI: those units will eventually earn mobility 1 and 2, running around in AI lands, not missing a single opportunity to strike, killing every mage and siege weapon (even assassin) in sight, and then teleport back to safety. The poor AI has no chance to produce, or at least to amass seige or arcane units. For the raiders civs to do this they almost have to trade an assassin for each unit they kill, because it is much harder for theirs to come back safely. It is not as game-changing as maelstorm and fireballs, and it is perhaps unflavourful, but it is a hell lot of fun.

Also, if you follow the Council of Esus, you can upgrade a Nightwatch to a Chanter for a measly 5. This way you're sure to get an assassin with Hidden Nationality (rather than waiting for one to get CoE randomly) and Escape, making them very tough to kill.

But one of the best religions to use for the Amurites as far as Unit Synergy has got to be the Empyrean. Once you get Govannon, you can train Radiant Guards to have the same abilities as a Firebow plus blinding light which is powerful in its own right. Even better, you can later upgrade them to Rathas and have a mobile fireball platform that can see invisible and has a taste for any assassins that threaten your mages.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Radiant Guards just start with Sun 2, not channeling 2, and so do not gain the ability to cast mage spells of spheres taught by Govannon.

I still think that The empyrean is at least the thematically best religion for Dain though. Valledia should certainly favor the Council of Esus though.

I think that Dimensional really needs to be implemented, and Chanters given Dimensional 1 instead of an inherent spell so that they keep the ability as Shadows.

 

[Darksaber1]

My biggest Gripe with the Amurites is while their wizards and Archmage look great, Govannon now looks like a stuck up fancy-pants, rather then a wandering teacher. (they switched Govannon and Amurite Archmages graphics a while ago).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yeah, we really need Govannon graphic that look like his pic.

 

[cyther]

Run for your life! Someone brought magister to life!

 

[Darksaber1]

What was I thinking! I must of been mad! I feel like one good mage who founded the Ashen Veil!

 

[Randomness]

Possibly a uu of the adept with lower build cost and promotion cost would solve the Amurites weakness, and give flavour. Posibly cheaper upgrades to.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Possibly a uu of the adept with lower build cost and promotion cost would solve the Amurites weakness, and give flavour. Posibly cheaper upgrades to.

It would make a lot more sense to just give the arcane line the Arcane Trait as a ProductionTrait, unless you want some other abilities too, like Letting these adepts upgrade to essentially any unit.

 

[Hadin Gunther]

Idea: Amurite Adepts plus all upgraded versions have a civilization specific spell.

Magic Missile: Does 10-20% Damage, to a max of 20% damage to a single unit (not panel/radius) Range of one, effects strongest target that can be damaged still.

Allows you to weaken the strongest defender at level one without dipping into death mana but requires investment in order to bust stacks. Would that be unbalanced?

 

[Tyrs]

I'm a fan of civ-specific spells in general. Having something different instead of just a better percentage has a greater appeal to me

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

nice idea