An SG for those who have never played an SG before

[Gaspar~]

Looking at both maps, I'd just like to reiterate how crappy this island is. As far as which, either is fine, we agreed on all the actual good sites, I think orange on my map is stronger than blue on T_Raccoons, but mine wastes a silk and has more overlap, which leads to purple on map 2 being better than pale yellow on map 1. So I think that basically makes us agreed. The northern coastal sites are most important regardless, since they're clearly the strongest sites left.

FWIW, I feel pretty confident that we'll already have copper and or iron under our control in the cities we already have. As it stands Beijing only has wheat and I don't think I've ever seen a start loc with only 1 resource in its fat cross. Meaningless, since theres sure to be plenty of metal on the island and the whole thing is ours, but just thought I'd mention we probably won't have to redotmap when we can see metals.

More importantly, this island sucks.

 

[Rem]

As far as techs go, I agree with T_rac, fishing --> sailing, but I think we should try to get pottery sooner than later for those awesome cottages and granaries.

 

[eektor]

Ok so I'm thinking purple and yellow on Gaspar map or brown and grey on T_Raccoon map. I also think we should get BW right away, then maybe a detour for pottery then on to sailing.

Well, I just came home so I need to take a shower and eat so feel free to post more ideas before I play.

 

[S.ilver]

For the tech... I would have to agree with Gaspar, go for bronze working ASAP. But sailing is good too. Probably best to finish mining, then go sailing, the finally to bronze working. The faster we get our ships out, the better, but we do need to chop.

As for the dotmaps... the desert area really stinks bad, and there's not much in the way of food resources on the island, causing us some issues. IMO, I think we should put the desert city on the plains at the river bend, so it can make full use of the floodplains, either to make it a GP city, or a commerce huge city. Either way, make it work only the floodplains and any other squares not contested by the other city sites.

The west is a bit more flexible in the settling, but not by much. This island wasn't really meant for ideal city placement. I notice we do have marble, so we should hook it up ASAP and it'll let us run for some wonders.

All the south has going for it right now is those two silver tiles. Worth going for, but we'll have sub par fishing villages, as it doesn't appear there are any food resources in the sea.

 

[T_Raccoon]

hey if you guys think this island sucks take a look at this SG.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3679638#post3679638

 

[eektor]

So here is my turnset

Turn 0: 2240 BC
Changed Barracks in Mecca to Warrior. I want to use the warrior to escort the settler.

Turn 1: 2200 BC


Turn 2: 2160 BC
Beijing to build Obelisk

Turn 3: 2120 BC


Turn 4: 2080 BC


Turn 5: 2040 BC


Turn 6: 2000 BC
Discovered Mining and started on BW
Mecca built Warrior and continues to build Barracks

Turn 7: 1975 BC


View attachment 115529

Turn 8: 1950 BC
Mecca reached population of 4, started on settler now.

Turn 9: 1925 BC


Turn 10: 1900 BC


View attachment 115530

 

[eektor]

After turn Commentary:

So after all the coffee I just had, I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight!

Mecca started out on the first settler. I decided to build the obelisk in Beijing to get some culture. I decided to mine the gold first in Mecca so we can have lots of commerce and help with our research.

I messed up. I didn't connect the horses before I moved my worker out. I thought it would connect because of the river, but I was wrong. This probably set our worker back about a turn or 2. Sorry about that. The next person might want to remember to connect the horses after the the gold is set up.

I'm sorry my turnset wasn't as exciting as S.ilver's

 

[T_Raccoon]

Great turnset and don't worry about the horses it's all good.

Rem you're up next.

I forgot, do you think ten turns is too short since we're on epic or do you guys want to go for fifteen turns each.

 

[S.ilver]

Don't worry about the horses not being connected. Roads don't offer commerce bonus anymore so it hardly matters, since we won't need to fight anyone anytime soon.

And since workers have 2 movement in Civ IV, we can get back on to that tile without losing time when we need to.

 

[Gaspar~]

Turns were fine eek, lots of the early game sets offer little to do. Might be worth doing 15 til we reach medieval or something, its the early we have no cities and everything takes 10+ turns to build that fly by. Its all good so long as we're all picking up the saves quick though.

 

[Rem]

Got it. I'll play it right now, but I might not get the report done before I head to bed, I've been tired all week and need some sleep. And it looks like it will be 15 turns each, so that's what I'll take. I'll have the report by no later than tomorrow night.

 

[Rem]

Alright, did my set, was pretty quick, so here's the report.

Turn 1- Nothing

Turn 2- Nothing

Turn 3- Nothing

IBT- Warrior in the south attacked by bear. Comes out with 0.4/2 str. Set to heal to full.

Turn 4- Worker starts hooking up gold in Mecca.

Turn 5- Nothing

Turn 6- Beijing done Obelisk -> Warrior

Turn 7- Nothing

Turn 8- Nothing

Turn 9- Nothing

Turn 10- Bronze Working done -> fishing due in 6.
Beijing done warrior -> warrior
I adopt Slavery and, we got 2 sources of bronze, one in Beijing radius, one 1 S, then SE of rice. Start hooking up the bronze in Beijing. Send warrior from Beijing to sentry.

Turn 11- Nothing

Turn 12- Nothing

Turn 13- Beijing War -> War

Turn 14- Settler done in Mecca -> Barracks

I decided to stop here so discussion can begin for our next city. Settler is fortified in Mecca, but frankly, I think a barracks in Mecca might be a waste of shields right now. Fishing is due in 2.

I'll see about getting some screenies up asap.

The save.

 

[Rem]

K, got some screenshots. Beijing and Mecca for your viewing pleasure.

 

[Gaspar~]

Taking a look at the save we have two great potential production sites so I would settle one of the northern dots for commerce/food. We have the gold mine, which working moves our GNP from 6th to 1st, think that might be worth the growth tradeoff.

Thinking settle the rice/wine site to keep maintenance costs lower, get another worker or two out to connect the cities, keep the current research path. I'd very briefly consider chopping out woodhenge to get GPP points sooner rather than later, but if we want that we'd have to do it immediately, and honestly Oracle is probably out without a wholesale goal change, we could get Priesthood in 5 working the gold, and masonry in 6, by the time that happened and we actually got the quarry up, we'd have to chop to beat the AIs, and figure at best 10 turns to writing to snag CoL (no chance at metal casting, as IW is 17 turns.) Upshot of all this chatter is probably just ignore oracle and stonehenge (which will probably fall any turn now.)

That's ok, since we really haven't said much on it, but I believe the hope was to snag something to get an early prophet, probably just best to go temple -> specialist, except we really don't have the food at the moment to run a specialist anywhere. So probably best to shelve that for a bit as well.

If I played now, I'd just stay on the seafaring research path, settle at rice/wine, and train another worker/work on road network so Beijing/new city get religion spread/gold happiness (EDIT: Sailing will do this actually, since that river spills to the ocean. I'd still like another worker though. )

I won't play til we get a little discussion going, since if you guys want either of the GPP wonders, we'd have to start on them immediately.

I'll add that I have a sinking feeling we're waiting for optics to get anywhere.

EDIT2: I took yet another look, I don't see an industrious Civ on the top 5 cities and with some MM+Chops I think I can definitely get woodhenge in Beijing in time on noble and epic. Oracle would be trickier and up to the next player.

 

[Rem]

I'm thinking Stonehenge would be doable also, with all the forests around. I'd say give it a go. If we can get that marble hooked up quickly, we might also be able to get Oracle

 

[T_Raccoon]

i think we should skip stonehenge entirely since we'll be researching calendar as soon as possible to hook up the all the silks around us. To research sailing, masonry, and priesthood would require 19 turns. Sailing and Masonry is only 11 turns so we can road the cows, road the forest we're on, road the horses, and then by that time we'll be able to build the quarry on the marble when the quarry starts getting built priesthood will be due in 9 turns. Afterwords we can go back and build the pasture on those cows.

 

[Gaspar~]

Goals for turnset -
1. Chop out Stonehenge, start Oracle in Beijing
2. Settle new city at rice and get it hooked up.
3. Continue fogbusting/barbwatch
4. Set next player up to start getting boats in the water, maybe a run on Parthenon in Mecca (so as not to dilute GPP)

Preturn:
MM Mecca for commerce, Beijing for production

Before MM​

After MM​

Switch warrior in Beijing to stonehenge, move out settler towards next site

Turn 0 (1525 BC)
Shuffle wars around, barbs appear in both east and west
(IBT) Warrior defeats a barb warrior, Fishing comes in, start on sailing.
Turn 1 (1500 BC)
Medina founded in between rice and wine, start warrior.
Copper mine finished, stonehenge down to 13 turns.
Turn 2-4 (1475 BC-1425BC)

(IBT) Barb war defeats already wounded sentry

Turn 5 (1400 BC)
Copper roaded and online
Turn 6 (1375 BC)
Cows online
Turn 7 (1350 BC)
Barracks done in Mecca, start on warrior for more fogbusting
Turn 8 (1325 BC)
(IBT) Barb war loses to sentry in south. Sailing in, start on Priesthood
Turn 9 (1300 BC)
Cities now connected via Sailing, Mecca War build autochanged to spear
Turn 10 (1275 BC)
Horses online. Chop finishes, Stonehenge in Beijing next turn
(IBT) Stonehenge in, we're in SW corner of map

Turn 11 (1250 BC)
Hinduism spreads to Medina
Turn 12 (1225 BC)
Spearman finished, start on worker in Mecca
Move spear towards fogbusting duties in between Mecca and Beijing
Start chop near Beijing to work on Oracle, Priesthood due next turn
(IBT) Priesthood in, start Masonry for Marble quarry
Turn 13 (1200 BC)
Switch Beijing to Oracle in 19 turns.
Turn 14 (1175 BC)
Turn 15 (1150 BC)
Chop finishes, Oracle now due in 13 turns.

 

[Gaspar~]

Post turn stuffs-

Prolly a little to have done Priesthood before Masonry, but I felt chops plus Beijing's uber production were more than enough, I figure marble will be more the route to a Parthenon in Mecca. A barb war is about to suicide on our fortified sentry on a hill across a river. Spear from Mecca is en route to fog busting, though I killed the goto as per normal SG protocol. I figure Oracle is as good as ours, if we grab another chop its certain but we'll be stuck taking garbage as the tech, if we let it go sans chop I think we'll still get it, but can sneak writing in to get CoL as the tech and get courthouses/found confucianism.

As for Mecca, I feel rock sure if we just go ahead and switch to Parthenon as soon as that worker is done, I'd send the existing worker plus the new one to get quarry online, then prolly 2 chops outside fat cross and its ours. That will get us GP spam for sure, plus 2 religions. After the wonder mess is done, I'd go ahead and get some galleys going from Beijing, and also start settler push (courthouses will be in.) Also note frustratingly Beijing wastes not one but two fishies.

T_Raccoon - UP
ntallyn - on deck
S.ilver
eektor
Rem
Gaspar~
Here's the save:

 

[Rem]

Good set Gasp. It looks like we're gonna have to slow down science though, which will throw off the Oracle techline.

 

[T_Raccoon]

Got it will play right now