[GS] Ancient Walls now provide 100 outer defense?

[Lily_Lancer]

59.08 At Maori Gamplay video
How about Medival and Renaissance walls?
They both provide 100 outer defense, too. As well as 3 city strength per level of wall instead of 2.

This is sure to help the defense side , at least archer rush may not work for 100 outer defense cities I guess.

And now, surely , upgrading star fort to modern defense loses 100 outer defense and 9 city strength.

 

[bbbt]

Looks like it - I took a look at the Hungary gameplay video as well, Carl builds walls in Buda and they are also +100 defense.

That might just make it harder for the AI to take cities though.

 

[Leathaface]

How much stronger is +100 ancient walls compared to the ones at present?

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

How much stronger is +100 ancient walls compared to the ones at present?

Currently ancient provide 50 and medieval an additional 50, so 100 for them. New ancient will be equivalent to medieval walls.

 

[Victoria]

As @bbbt says, this is going to make it harder for the AI but if they have not fixed rams it will make little difference to the player.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

Interesting. Hard to say exactly what it will do because we don't know what else they've changed. Presumably it was intended to reduce the power of archer rushes?

 

[Lily_Lancer]

As @bbbt says, this is going to make it harder for the AI but if they have not fixed rams it will make little difference to the player.

It will be much harder to capture cities by archers, so eliminating a Civ in ancient becomes more difficult, therefore you'll be more likely to face a normal/dark classical instead of golden/normal ones on random maps.

 

[Siptah]

Hopefully it is a change that makes wall stronger and that stupid ranged attack weaker... AI doesn‘t use it very well and it‘s quite strong for the player to have a garrisoned ranged unit and this attack to defend.

 

[Arent11]

Good. Now make catapults better. Give them 3 range and artillery 4. You can make them much weaker to compensate for that range advantage & simulate a long siege.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

As @bbbt says, this is going to make it harder for the AI but if they have not fixed rams it will make little difference to the player.

I guess this matters. Facing +6 strength cities with 200 outer defense is much harder than facing +4 with 100 outer defense.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Looks like indirect buff for Tamar.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

This would make conquest (especially early conquest) harder. Hopefully it's a sign the developers are trying to fix conquest being way too easy. Hopefully (again) Domination Victory will become more of an achievement and Science/Culture will be won by Science/Culture rather than being a "disguised domination"

I might end up buying that expansion after all.

 

[Disgustipated]

if they have not fixed rams it will make little difference to the player

In the Hungary game play video rams look exactly the same. Of course that's still an early build and they could still change it.

I almost never use archers to take down walls. Too often there's an enemy archer as well and they can take out 1 archer per turn. It just takes too many archers. Battering ram is much more effective.

 

[Turrdy]

Good. Now make catapults better. Give them 3 range and artillery 4. You can make them much weaker to compensate for that range advantage & simulate a long siege.

Artillery has the same range as catapults right now (only 2). +1 range comes later with rocket artillery.
Though, observation balloons make it looke like artillery have more range!

 

[Leyrann]

and Science/Culture will be won by Science/Culture rather than being a "disguised domination"

I've won both science and culture victories (the latter on deity, the former on... eh, emperor or immortal I think, was before I moved to deity) without significant conquering. The entire deity culture victory game I conquered only one city.

 

[Arent11]

Artillery has the same range as catapults right now (only 2). +1 range comes later with rocket artillery.
Though, observation balloons make it looke like artillery have more range!

The point is that 1 unit per tile forces you to give infantry 2 moves & archers 2 range. Which means, if you want to make catapults worthwhile against cities & simulate a long, drawn out bombardement of a city, you would need to give them even more range & maybe make their attack much weaker, slowly chipping away at the defenses of a city.

If catapults have 3 range, then artillery - which can shoot much farther in reality than puny catapults - would have to have an even greater range.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

I've won both science and culture victories (the latter on deity, the former on... eh, emperor or immortal I think, was before I moved to deity) without significant conquering. The entire deity culture victory game I conquered only one city.

Of course you did, so did i ... much later than those who conquered half the world.

It's especially visible if you look at 6otM games. Every game report i've read from players who managed to win fast, they had a crapload of cities at the end of the game, most of those acquired through conquest. It is possible to play peacefully and i tend to do it often when i'm not going for domination but the easiest/fastest way to win any victory is through conquest which feels wrong to me.

 

[Leyrann]

If catapults have 3 range, then artillery - which can shoot much farther in reality than puny catapults - would have to have an even greater range.

Are you saying a slinger in reality has more range than a modern infantry?

 

[Arent11]

Are you saying a slinger in reality has more range than a modern infantry?

In the utterly realistic world of civ vi a Slinger can shoot over half of Germany, while modern infantry is engaging in fistfights.

 

[Leyrann]

Of course you did, so did i ... much later than those who conquered half the world.

It's especially visible if you look at 6otM games. Every game report i've read from players who managed to win fast, they had a crapload of cities at the end of the game, most of those acquired through conquest. It is possible to play peacefully and i tend to do it often when i'm not going for domination but the easiest/fastest way to win any victory is through conquest which feels wrong to me.

That doesn't mean you can't win an actual science or culture victory. You don't have to go for the fastest win time.