Another Brennus Game

[krikav]

First one was quick (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/a-brennus-game.654110/), lets try another one.

Spoiler T0 :

Just because I avoided clams last turn around, I rolled untill I got clams.

Looks like a lake (or possibly more coast?) west of the wine, would moving scout SW or W gain visibility of most tiles?

I think I would moe scout SW, as that reveals the south too, and could make 1S settlement possible.
If nothing interesting is found, settler move first NW and then 1S seems sensible.

 

[Qactus]

...
Looks like a lake (or possibly more coast?)
...

You can tell the difference if you mouseover and see if it says "fresh water" or not

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T5 :

Nothing nice in the south, but a cow further west. I settle 1N of the wine was that keeps all clam and gains the cow.

Meet charly very quick, will be boxed in here.
Should try to secure that ivory to I have the option of elephants later on.
AH first seems sensible, but that might be a trap workerturn wise if no horses show up.
Mining -> fishing and mining that wine doesn't improve the situation much either. :/

 

[krikav]

You can tell the difference if you mouseover and see if it says "fresh water" or not

It's freshwater, but had forgot to check when posting the screenshot.

 

[Qactus]

Spoiler :

Great Lighthouse is one option that should be considered here. Even a single city on that other landmass would provide intercontinental traderoutes and could share the clams. Regular lighthouse also very valuable with +3food. And who knows, maybe there's room for more cities there.

 

[krikav]

T16 AH

Spoiler :

Well, no horses.
Perhaps worker first was a mistake, fishing first and perhaps just building it with that forested PH would have been best.
I'm kind of clueless on what to go for next too.
Mining->BW is extremly costly and will also take forever.

I'm thinking that going for a settler early and to settle something in close proximity of the ivory is best.
TW gives me something to do, and will speed up city#2.
TW->Fishing->Mining->BW.

Tagging along with Charly down south through the jungle, and see the borders of Hannibal.

 

[Gumbolt]

That land mass could be the same continent as it has a lion. How often do islands really get barbs? Have to be quite big for that. Albeit you have scouted quite a bit south now.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T52 :

Ok, playing abit sloppy now, abit annoyed that I forgot to think about fishing first and going for a early workboat, but oh well... I have a third Brennus game queued up if this fails miserably.

Charly settles Vienna in a nice spot, this will make ivory easy to claim and hold, many different possible locations to consider, all sharing the cow though.

Continuing to tag along for scouting. Soon I part ways with Charly though and go on a 1-move journey of my own. Always nice to gain knowledge of AI capitals as it can ease monitoring of wonder building and also to know if they are hilled or now.

TW is in, fishing completes in 6 turns, and I still have 12 turns left to build the settler, I have no use for fishing then...
Mining is 8 turns, and I won't be able to complete the wine-mine to speed up the settler, but still I choose mining first, even though it likely means a turn or possibly two later workboat later on.

T35 Hanny completes stonehenge.

Settler is done, I would have prefered to settle on the PH, but prioritize the worker being able to make a camp too.
Alternative would have been to continue making mostly useless roads.
I also meet Joao who comes from the east. Perhaps that is his continent? He spreads like wildfire usually.

Fishing is in and I start to juggle the cow back and forth, making workboats and trying to grow both cities. Also working the lake from time to time. Vienne builds a monument to secure ivory.
(Funny that Vienne is settled north of Vienna! )

My warrior finally gets around to scout my backyard, and there is a lack of fish there.

Borders pop, and there is fish on the other continent.
(Note placement of worker, put him in the forest closest to multiple copper spots.)

The worker is rewarded greatly for his foresight.
Copper is extra nice with the celts as they can build their sword with copper.
Not sure if construction attack makes any sense what so ever, as both charly and Hanny have their own source of Ivory. :/

Sailing next is probably best goodies offshore!

 

[lymond]

Well the bright side is no barb troubles

 

[drewisfat]

A truly horrible map. I view clam/crab starts the way most people view plains cows. It's a slow start with fishing - without fishing it's even slower.

Charlie's third city is truly disheartening. Don't see how you can construction rush a PRO civ with only 2 cities on the continent. Just gross. I'd have gone for GLH here, 2nd city 1E of elephants and hope for a few good cities on the other landmass. Though with the slow start, no IND, and at least Portugal on the water, the odds aren't great. This map looks more reasonable than the last map for scouting a bit with a WB and connecting with sailing.

I might give this a try in a bit to see how non-worker first compares.

 

[Fippy]

Jumborush should be fine, units from the island are not actually slower since ~2 galleys can deliver them into Aachen and they move on the same turn
So yup sailing, then i would focus on pottery, writing and tech HBR, Masonry & collect construction gold while waiting for a GS on maths bulb.

Protective or not, Jumbos are strong and cease fires can always be abused.

 

[krikav]

@lymond
Allways look at the bright side!

@drewisfat
3 clams didn't feel bad first, and when I saw cows after moving I was kind of glad, but yes this turned out like a very slow start.
Would be interested to see how a fishing first start compares!

@Fippy
Many strong players agree on that! https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/attackos-elephant-rush-tactical-guide.276366/
Do you think it would be an option to avoid pottery (or trade for it later) to gain speed?


And all regarding GLH, I think that is wishful thinking really... There is so much to be done and making a attempt at GLH here feels like a very high risk (and just possibly high reward) strategy.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T59 :

I meet pericles down south, and I now see where all the land that I'm deprived of is located.

The settler is starting to rot in the queue. Capital takes cow to reach pop4 the same turn the copper is done. Will lose 4 hammers of the settler.

Will send the workboat north, as the fish spot looks like the best place for a city

Thats Joaos culture. :'(

two turns of chopping left in the forest with a road. If both workers enter their own forest I can get 40H of chopping one turn and 20 the next.
Criticial thing is to get the galley and another workboat for the fish finished.
After that, chops should probably be preserved untill math.
Techwise now... I see three options.
1) Pottery->Writing
With the idea to build up granaries and lay down a cottage or two. Not sure about this, Ivory town won't grow anyway. Should probably just try to reach size3 and work marble+ivory+lake (or cow when available) and possibly size4 to work both cow and lake.
Capital can reach size7-8 with all that food even without a granary, and there is enough hills to stagnate there after that, especially with running two scientists.
Granaries are obviously good for whipping later, but speed is of the essence here.

2) Writing right away speeds up math bulb and should hasted all research.

3) Save cash -> HBR is a high risk approach that gambles on someone getting alfabet early on, and I could then trade for both writing and pottery and alot of other goodies.
Close to game over if noone goes alfabet early on though.

I'm leaning toward writing, what do you think?

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T72 :

After just going a turn or so into writing, pericles finishes alfabet. Perhaps HBR could have been an option.
That would probably have made bulbing math impossible though, as library comes too late?

I find Gandhi, the Hindu-founder, and OB with him gives +2 commerce due to intercontinental routes. I turn back my boat here so I don't have to build another one for the clam.

This was really nice (I think)! Oracle and GLH is built at the same turn, and it's Charly who builds GLH!! Finally something that works out.
Since I'm going for him, getting that prize would be huge.
I worry though, that this will give him such a boost in tech that he will become too powerful for me.

Galley is finished, and chop finishes the boat for the fishes.

Settling on this hill would have been nice, but culture shape indicates that there is a city in there so I go for the other spot that can share one clam too.

Thank you so much for not stealing my city spot Joao!

No culture building nor any religion here. I should have time to steal the forests, so I ship over a worker.
Thought about monument first, but abandon that idea, culture won't help me anyway, so I go straight for a lighthouse, once I get pottery later this city can be whipped heavily with clam+fish.

Lighthouse is at 26/60, and a chop is about to land. I decide to postpone whipping and let the chop land into the library.

3 turns later I'm ready to whip lighthouse, the overflow and already invested hammers into library will finish it next turn.
Hanny spawns a GPropet from his SH.

T71 Charly demands I join Buddhism which suprised me as I didn't have it. But Apparantly it had spread that turn! Lovely as this gives me insta-pleased and make me 100% safe against Charly. Woo hoo!

Vienne is starting to produce units, a library there won't do me much good. Will try to avoid finishing units for as long as possible to reduce upkeep.
Likely have to grow capital abit before hiring the two scientists.
HBR full speed next turn, pericles was willing to trade masonry but have started pyramids now since he won't trade it anymore, but I might be able to get it in trade later on.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T80 :

All of the sudden, Evora has both hinduism and a library. I could save the forest if I whip the monument, but screw that. My worker is out of here now.
Two more turns of working that hill sets me up to 1pop whip the lighthouse.

Not sure this math bulb thing is working out for me.
I don't really want to take citizens away from either the food or the copper. :/ Perhaps I should have refrained from whipping and instead finished a chop more, and accepted abit later lighthouse and library in favour of getting scientists earlier.

T76 Joao finishes pyramids.
T78 Pericles founds confu which should ensure tensions between him and the other two buddhists I share continent with.

I find Achen, which ofcourse is on a hill.

Hannibal has teched HBR so no trades there.
I can get IW or mason+pot+agri for HBR with pericles, should I get pottery+masonry...?

Could bulb math T94, but thats awful late, isn't it...?
Put enough beakers into alfabet so I can get it for HBR from Pericles, perhaps I can get math in a trade, perhaps not?

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T83 Eventfull turns! :

I trade HBR for mason+pottery with pericles.
The next turn, Gandhi finishes alfabet (or trade..?)

I cry for the crabs. :'(

And I admire Hannibals glorious elephants.
That was quick... did he oracle construction perhaps...?

After two turns into alfa, Gandhi asks me for a deal. This has got to be a close deal and should cause me problems with Charly.
Charly on the other hand, is not willing to make the deal, either he has some beakers into HBR himself (but he is willing to give me IW though.) or he knows less/more AIs with hbr so it has lower value than for gandhi?
I do the deal anyway.

Seeing this, I also trade HBR for IW with charly. Joao likes Charly but not the other way around, but I'm sure that they would do some trading if I don't step in and do it first, as Joao has math and charly has alfa.

When I get math, I need about 96g to sprint through construction. So I put research on hold and save up some cash.

Then I meet this guy:

He only knows Gandhi and Joao and me.

"Know your enemy" says that Ragnar: "Will trade techs that don't unlock units or buildings to human when 30% of the other AIs also know the tech"
If he only knows Joao and Gandhi, that treshold should be met, unless he is building gardens that is?
Should I give him HBR to get him to pleased and hope I can get math from him...? Would be glorious, but I have no way to know if he has beakers into either, and it would screw up diplo with Gandhi too. (Which isn't much of a deal, since he is so nice anyway.)

 

[krikav]

Spoiler Still T83... and nope. :'( :

I close borders with Gandhi to teleport this guy back home, useful for city garisson soon.

Gift Ragnar HBR. Only caused -2 diplo with Gandhi.

But no, he does not want to trade math.
Why?! He isn't building Gardens and he only knows Joao (which has Math) and Gandhi (which doesn't).
Is it because both Joao and Ragnar is lacking alfabet, so Ragnar doesn't know that Joao has Math...?

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T90 :

I wait a fwe turns, then I try to gift Alfa to Joao to see if that does the trick. It did not.

A turn later Gandhi finishes drama and I start to hope that he might go math because he needs it for music, but I'm getting quite desperate here. :/
I start to go for Aestethics to trade that instead, starting to think that better use for the GSci is to bulb compass as I know all AIs now.

But then this happends! Apparantly just the fact that the wonder is still available make them consider to trade in other ways?

Now I at least get math and start to sprint construction.
Perhaps just getting an academy is best as that is likely to give me a turn or so faster construction? That or put 4-5 turns into MC and see if I can get MC for compass with pericles.
Now I start to worry alot of how to time the attack on Charly in a good manner. I'm thinking that it might make sense to simply just go for the capital right away, as success there is essentiall (GLH) and if I get it, I'm sure to get a ceasefire.
Losing ivory town might be worth it too.
Perhaps I should build a few spies for a revolt or a wall demolition too...

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T106 :

Pericles offered construction up for trade, so I ended up bulbing compass, self-teching aestethics and that about it tech-wise. Been putting EP on Charly now and building up, chopping and whipping that coastal city.

Funny thing, I swapped to no state religion a short while to try to get rangar to pleased when I was trying to get math, and during those short turns, charly started plotting. It looks like he is about ready to DoW me, as I'm ready to DoW him.
Some interesting options are available...


It could be that he is just passing by, going for Gandhi which is his worst enemy though.
Not a impressive stack at all from him, but if he DoWs, I could take advantage of that and shoot down units in that city. (or at least I could have done that if he was't PRO, not sure how that changes things.)
I could gift him the city, DoW him (or wait a turn and let him DoW me, and snipe it back with a guerilla2 gallic warrior to gain some war success.
But that would lose all plot culture on the Ivory and that would be problematic, I need to resupply elephants too.

Thinking of if I should swap religion (likely to no religion) to get pleased with a few more guys to screw up Charlys diplo abit if he DoWs me.
No state religion should keep pleased with Hanny at +2, right..?
And it would also get pleased with pericles and gandhi?

Techwise, they are sprinting ahead, this will be tough even if I succed in the war against charly.

I had EPs on Hanny for most of the game so have had to run 100% against charly now. 3 spies are standing ready and another one will be 1pop whipped before I lose ivory town.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T112 :

So, I swap to no religion, which gets me to pleased with the crowd, except for hannibal. So I give him first 50g, then 10g and planned to give him maxmimum 100g, but 60g in total did the trick.

Charly sends his DoW and gives me a boat.

I think this is a nice trick, whipping a spy allows it to survive city capture.

This city is starting to experience troubles... But what can I do, I need catapults.
That monument earlier could have been useful though...

Dinner is served.

First catapult got 80% odds too, getting quite alot of guys up to lvl2 here!

Left a spear, a shock axe and a elephant, the rest of the crowd is marching toward Achen.

I trade away my copper for silver with Pericles, I need the happines to get a few more catapults from the coastal city.
T111 I also beg 10g from everyone before swapping back to buddhism and beg 10g from Hannibal. Peace treaty with almost everyone feels safe.

This was very costly, I moved my spies back to avoid having them caught, I thought we would slog units around ivory city for a while.
But now, I can't afford to wait, first spy succeed too!

Alot of catapults promoted with bombardment took defenses down easily with walls down. I sent a suicide catapult with the collateral promotion in first, then the last catapult, a CR2 one with 50% odds which died.
Then I tried this guerilla3 thinghy, didn't work out. First one died, second one did withdraw though.

Very nice prize, I needed this.

He is not willing to talk, but likely next turn.
Only lack 4 xp for a GGeneral, hope I get some easy picking to reach that.
Hopefully I also don't have to do continious ceasefires as that would screw up diplo.
Getting an OK stack in Vienne and could try marching south. Would like to get that northern city to get rid of culture but that must probably wait for later.
Should probably get a monument up in that city at Joaos place before it flips.
I should also try to get Buddhism there as it's a nice place to tech steal from Joao once I have Prague, if I can get prague...