Another Classic SG ...

[Old n Slow]

What protection from the barbarians? I can almost guarentee that we'll see them at LEAST once every eight players!

 

[Andu Indorin]

The games so far have been Americans, Vikings, Chinese, Japanese, French. We've had no White, Yellow, Orange or Purple civs yet. I was thinking English since you're talking Archipelago(Start on an island), but honestly, I have no preference.

How about playing as the Irish (i.e., non-Welsh Celts). Then we could go up against some proper seafarers: the English, the Spanish, the Vikings, the American (Yankee Traders), and the Japanese ... leaving open the color purple for a civil war, which we have yet to see in one of these games, Loki's machinations notwithstanding.

Do you really think an archipelago will add to the challenge? I'd think that would protect us (or at least isolate damage) from the Wrathful Barbarians although it will make defense tougher to manage as well. I've also never seen the AI expand well across multiple landmasses, so they may be hamstrung by starting on medium to small islands, even at D+n. Eh, I'm sure it will be fine.

Well, perhaps large landmass might compensate somewhat. I recall our Teddy Roosevelt game in which the Zulu navy tormented us so ...

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

How about playing as the Irish (i.e., non-Welsh Celts). Then we could go up against some proper seafarers: the English, the Spanish, the Vikings, the American (Yankee Traders), and the Japanese ... leaving open the color purple for a civil war, which we have yet to see in one of these games, Loki's machinations notwithstanding.

Well, perhaps large landmass might compensate somewhat. I recall our Teddy Roosevelt game in which the Zulu navy tormented us so ...

Oh, ok. That game was before I started playing in these things...I'll have to go back and read that one. I'm sure medium land mass would be fine. I guess the AI grows so fast it will have no choice but to branch out.

 

[Andu Indorin]

Oh, ok. That game was before I started playing in these things...I'll have to go back and read that one. I'm sure medium land mass would be fine. I guess the AI grows so fast it will have no choice but to branch out.

Normally, I'd go back and double check to see the exact nature of the landmasses and how well the AIs expanded ... but unless TheViking has copies of that game, that is not an option. I'd sure hate to start up a succession game and have it wind up being a lemon. Of course, with a bit a work, expansion rates could be tested. ...

UPDATE (1/25/06): TheViking has graciously offered to forward thae save game files in question, so I can see if my memory of AI expansion is correct.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

FWIW, I generated a few random maps with various settings and even on Archipelago, Large Land mass usually resulted in one very large sprawling Pangea with a few outlying islands. The degree of difficulty would probably be highly dependant on whether or not we ended up on that continent or not. Medium seemed to have a better mix of land size and water.

 

[Andu Indorin]

Well, having examined the old (courtesy of the Viking), the AI expansion was not quite what I recalled ... but still enough to make it an interesting game.

I've been doing some work trying to develop a map that should present some intriguing possibilities ... Hope to have something finished in the next couple days so we can get this game off the ground.

 

[Andu Indorin]

And here's hoping it works. ...

We are: Brian Boro of the Irish (i.e., non-Welsh Celts)

We stand opposed by the Japanese, Vikings, Spanish, English, and Americans (seafarers all, we hope).

Map: Archipelago, Large Land Mass, 5 billion years, Cool and Arid (iirc)

We Start: Way south, with one settler, and no techs ...

And, of course, D+3 and Barb Wrath ...

(Have I forgotten anything???)

btw, as the Irish, cities will come up as blanks. Hope that's not too much trouble ... if interested, the following are representative: Dubh Linn, Belfast, Cork, Limerick, Derry, Bangor, Galway, Waterford, Dundalk, Drogheda, Sligo, Kilkenny, Omagh, Larne, Enniskillen, Shannon.

And one last reminder: Barb wrath requires 2.42 classic ...

I'll take the last shift ... Whoever wants start, have at it!

 

[Kev]

B'gosh, looking forward to this effort all!

I think it might be best to at least put forth an order of play to use as a guideline so there won't be confusion - or at least lessen it.

Do we have a final list of who's in?

I can play this weekend without issue at all, so if someone can take it now and play some early rounds I can take it from there. Or, if nobody is ready, I'd be happy to start us off then.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

At last!

I am still trying to finish up the GOTM where I haven't made any progress in the last few days so it will probably tie me up 'til next week before I can devote to this, so don't put me first.

It would also help to clarify any house rules:
Keep Spotless Rep?
Inciting revolts/subverting cities not allowed?
Unit bribing allowed?
Van rehoming not allowed?

 

[Andu Indorin]

B'gosh, looking forward to this effort all!

I think it might be best to at least put forth an order of play to use as a guideline so there won't be confusion - or at least lessen it.

Do we have a final list of who's in?

I can play this weekend without issue at all, so if someone can take it now and play some early rounds I can take it from there. Or, if nobody is ready, I'd be happy to start us off then.

The updated list on the first post is more or less final. As for an order of play, with players like Tim and OldnSlow tied up with the GOTM 60, I was thinking to allow whoever is ready to play to start off. With one Settler and no huts in view ... maybe not to much to do the first round anyways. (Indeed, I'd suggest the first player might take twenty turns instead of the usual 15 turns). And then we can hash out play order as apropos; we'll keep you pencilled in for the weekend.

It would also help to clarify any house rules:
Keep Spotless Rep?
Inciting revolts/subverting cities not allowed?
Unit bribing allowed?
Van rehoming not allowed?

I knew I was forgetting something ...

Inciting revolts/subverting cities: NO
Unit Bribing: Lately, this has only been allowed with Barb units
Keep Spotless Rep: Lately, we've been trying to do this as well.
Van/Freight rehoming: Likewise, we've been avoiding this as well. (Of course, I think I'm a minority of one that views this "cheat" as more historically defensible than other common short cuts.)

Finally, # of turns: start first round with 12 turns (since we are 8) ??? -- which'll take us down to around 100 bc; then cut back to ten for the next round and see where we stand at that point.

Anything else???

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

IIRC, building a warrior throws us into disorder so I focused on a Settler first to avoid disorder and get the size 1 first city 'bonus'.

4000 BC: Settler Moves down river to explore

3950 BC: Settler tries to find a spot to settle along the coast.

3900 BC: Settler tries to find a spot to settle along the coast.

3850 BC: Dubh Linn founded (DL). Workers set to Silk. Settler started. Alphabet picked as starting tech.

3750 BC: Building…

3700 BC: Building… IPRB Settler to 10 (2 gold)

3650 BC: Building… Discover Alphabet. Code of Laws picked next.

3600 BC: Building…

3550 BC: Building…

3500 BC: Building…

3450 BC: Building…

3400 BC: Building…

3350 BC: Building…

3300 BC: Building…

3250 BC: Building…

3200 BC: Settler built. Code of Laws should happen next turn?

11 gold, one city, one Settler. Madrid is size 3 while all the other capitals shown are size 2.

I can't remember many details of the prior games and what to do/avoid very well.

 

[Andu Indorin]

IIRC, building a warrior throws us into disorder so I focused on a Settler first to avoid disorder and get the size 1 first city 'bonus'. ...

I can't remember many details of the prior games and what to do/avoid very well.

No, for that matter, can I. I do recall we developed an optimal method building temples in new cities. IIRC, we'd let the city remain in disorder to keep science and food production working, and scrap shield production until we had a second citizen to use an entertainer for the first; then build temple. (Talk about worthless social structure ) So, ideally, build road in grassland before building city ???

Since Duke has played, and Kev will be ready to play next, and random play order suggests itself quite nicely (every other player in alphabetical order, with myself last):

1) Duke of Marlbrough
2) Kev
3) Sharkbait
4) TheViking
5) Flatlander Fox
6) Old n Slow
7) TimThe Enchanter
8) Andu Indorin

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

If the silk wasn't there I would have roaded the grassland first. The silk gave us shields and trade. I think keeping the city out of disorder by not building the warrior gave us faster growth than building the warrior and having the city be in disorder after that.

I think I should have picked Ceremonial Burial as the tech instead of Code of Laws though.

 

[Andu Indorin]

If the silk wasn't there I would have roaded the grassland first. The silk gave us shields and trade. I think keeping the city out of disorder by not building the warrior gave us faster growth than building the warrior and having the city be in disorder after that.

I think I should have picked Ceremonial Burial as the tech instead of Code of Laws though.

Actually, I was referring to our new settler ... unless of course a fish or whale nearby.

The advantage with CoL is that it sets up for Monarchy ... and Trade.

And btw, what's upcoming milestone?

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Ah, yes, that would most likely be the best thing for the new Settler to do.

I picked CoL for those two reasons because I couldn't remember if temples did us any good in these games or not. I guess both techs will be there soon enough....

The milestone is the first birthday for my son.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

I seem to recall in the last game temples became pretty worthless rather quickly. Once we started expanding even a little, a temple + full garrison units could not keep a size 2 city content (I'd have to look back a the logs to see if I can find confirmation of this).

Once a city starts in disorder, I recall the best plan being to let it suffer in disorder because we still got food for it to grow, and science (I can't remember if we got any gold or not). Once it reached size 2, we hired an elvis and we started getting sheild production out of it at that point.

I hadn't really thought this through or experimented with it, but I wonder if we might have better luck going rapidly towards Republic. Luxuries don't do much for us until we get those extra arrows, and if units AND improvements can't keep them happy maybe we should look for a different solution. In republic, expansion will help us because of the black-hat thing. All we would need are two Lux per city once that takes over. The obvious drawback would be the sheild support. I'm probably missing something else, but I just figured I'd throw it out there..

 

[Kev]

Having an issue, guys, and perhaps one of you can help. If not, I'll post it in tech support.

Have a new computer bought about a year and a half ago, and I had not loaded Civ2 on it, so I went to do so last night.

Got this message:

C:/windows/system32/autoexec.nt. The system file is not suitable for running MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows applications. Choose 'close' to terminate application.

Gives me the choice to close or ignore, but nothing happens in either case.

This is the same CD that I've used forever. Have a Dell running Windows XP.

I'm going to try to touch base with my brother who knows about these things as I am very much a layperson, but if anyone has an idea please let me know. In the mean time, I'll have to be skipped until it's resolved.

 

[Andu Indorin]

Having an issue, guys, and perhaps one of you can help. If not, I'll post it in tech support.

Have a new computer bought about a year and a half ago, and I had not loaded Civ2 on it, so I went to do so last night.

Got this message:

C:/windows/system32/autoexec.nt. The system file is not suitable for running MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows applications. Choose 'close' to terminate application.

Gives me the choice to close or ignore, but nothing happens in either case.

This is the same CD that I've used forever. Have a Dell running Windows XP.

I'm going to try to touch base with my brother who knows about these things as I am very much a layperson, but if anyone has an idea please let me know. In the mean time, I'll have to be skipped until it's resolved.

A little odd ...

An examination of the autoexec.nt file on my Compaq XP system yields:

@echo off

REM AUTOEXEC.BAT is not used to initialize the MS-DOS environment.
REM AUTOEXEC.NT is used to initialize the MS-DOS environment unless a
REM different startup file is specified in an application's PIF.

REM Install CD ROM extensions
lh %SystemRoot%\system32\mscdexnt.exe

REM Install network redirector (load before dosx.exe)
lh %SystemRoot%\system32\redir

REM Install DPMI support
lh %SystemRoot%\system32\dosx

REM The following line enables Sound Blaster 2.0 support on NTVDM.
REM The command for setting the BLASTER environment is as follows:
REM SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 P330
REM where:
REM A specifies the sound blaster's base I/O port
REM I specifies the interrupt request line
REM D specifies the 8-bit DMA channel
REM P specifies the MPU-401 base I/O port
REM T specifies the type of sound blaster card
REM 1 - Sound Blaster 1.5
REM 2 - Sound Blaster Pro I
REM 3 - Sound Blaster 2.0
REM 4 - Sound Blaster Pro II
REM 6 - SOund Blaster 16/AWE 32/32/64
REM
REM The default value is A220 I5 D1 T3 and P330. If any of the switches is
REM left unspecified, the default value will be used. (NOTE, since all the
REM ports are virtualized, the information provided here does not have to
REM match the real hardware setting.) NTVDM supports Sound Blaster 2.0 only.
REM The T switch must be set to 3, if specified.
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 P330 T3

REM To disable the sound blaster 2.0 support on NTVDM, specify an invalid
REM SB base I/O port address. For example:
REM SET BLASTER=A0

The REMark: "AUTOEXEC.NT is used to initialize the MS-DOS environment unless a different startup file is specified in an application's PIF." may be significant, since it correlates with your error message. It's possible -- though I'd say improbable -- that your autoexec.nt file has become corrupted; or, Dell may have modified this file for reasons that I cannot ascertain. However, there is a possibility that the "Autorun.exe" file on the Civ2 disk is making a request for a Windows file that no longer exists in the Windows XP command structure (the reference to the PIF). Therefore, you might give this shot:

Assuming you get the above error message immediately after inserting the disk in the CD-ROM drive, use the Cntl+Alt+Del routine to shut down the process it is attempting. It won't show up as an application but rather as a process: "autorun.exe" -- and this may take more than one attempt to achieve. Then using Windows Explorer, access the CD-Rom drive and double-click Setup. Hopefully, this will reveal the problem is with the autorun file rather than the setup file.

Hope that might work.

 

[Kev]

Unfortunately, no good. The message actually only comes up when I try to run the setup - either from the start menu or going to the disk directly.

I should mention that my error message has a heading above it:

16 bit Windows Subsystem

In fact, when I do hit Ctr Alt Del, "16 bit Windows Subsystem" is the only item under applications. It goes away when I clear the error message.

This bites.

 

[Andu Indorin]

16-bit, 32-bit ... a little beyond me.

However, another possibility:

"The likely cause of this error message is a Trojan virus infection. The Trojan is thought to be: TrojanDownloader.Win32.Dia.a

Be sure to update all of your spyware/anti-virus scanners and run complete system scans."

I got that quote from the following page:

http://www.5starsupport.com/xp-faq/1-15.htm

The page includes a correction procedure ...

(btw, if you're feeling really ambitious, before attempting surgery, I'd be interested in examining the corrupted files. ... Any chance you could copy and zip them for e-mailing?)