v92 China


Lurker in the Water
Oct 31, 2011
First I wanted to say thank you to Rhye for letting me join in the play testing of this game and I hope I can provide useful feedback.

I've played a lot of Civ 4 Rhyse and Fall and appreciate my expectations and biases may need to adjust for the new reality of Civ 5.

I decided to try my first game on Prince Difficulty as China, a relatively early start with no expectation of collapse as newer civs come to fill my place.

I founded Bejing in place, I noticed that compared to prior versions there were now Marsh tiles to prevent settling by the coast (the otherwise obvious course of action) and decided to play a fairly straightforward game.

I also noticed Nanning the rebel china city in the middle, again an interesting addition as it gave me a focal point and opponent to focus on for the first 100 turns.
An archer and horseman flipped to me when spawning, this was interesting as on an aborted run I didnt get the horseman which I noticed later on (once I had linked the horse resource north east of Beijing) would become one my of strongest units against Barbs, a little bit of RNG in my favour.


It would take until turn 67 to take Nanjing with an army of two warriors and three archers, the central placement on Nanjing really discourages settling any more cities in central china especially on the coast, in hindsight I wonder whether another course of action would have been to raise Nanjing and use settlers to build cities further north on the river mouth (to secure Nanjing's dyes & rice as well as silk on the other side of the bay) and another city on the southern river mouth (for Nanjing's silks, sugar and marble). I also ran into happiness problems due to the occupied city pop which it was difficult to do anything about in the early game.


By turn 100 below I still had only 2 cities (total 5 pop), had only managed to research two techs (pottery and ceremonial burial) and was concerned with my deficit and happiness. In my notes I noticed that the game felt slow, especially from a tech perspective as I was unlocking cultural policies as a more conventional rate while city growth was far lower (I suspect due to the grassland nerf laid out by Rhye). My main focus was on taking out Barb camps for unit exp and the gold bonus. I had sent out units to explore in the south and find any natural wonders (mainly for happiness boost).

Techs I desperately needed:
Writing to kickstart research with the paper makers (as well as the +2 gold)
Calendar: all local resources required plantations without which I was struggling with gold and happiness. This included Rice which was a departure from Civ 4, somewhat of a surprise to me but I assume this was for balance reasons? I also noticed rice didnt boost the Granary again I assume this is due to rice being added for the Mod and either being overlooked or not intended to boost the Granary. I do wonder if this has been explored as it would make rice a focus in the early game for growth.


Annoyingly my screenshots stopped working or didn't save I dont have much to illustrate my next set of notes

Finished liberty in turn 112, chose a great scientist and settled south east of Beijing, this 8 science went a long way to speeding up Tech progess and Im no sure what I would have done without it.

Met Ghandi/India around turn 115 I noticed the embassy tooltip refers to writing although embassies have been moved to Code of Laws. I was able to maintain my deficit spending by offloading some horses to him for gold, this is classic Civ 5 behaviour but did feel slightly like i was taking advantage of the AI overvaluing something I had no use for.

Turn 120: settled 3rd city Guangzhou to secure southern crabs, pearls and tea. It would take some time before I had research fishing though but once I had these resources pulled me out of the happiness hole I had slipped into. I also founded my Pantheon selecting Oral Rites to take advantage of the plantations I would be building. With regards to religion Egypt had founded Islam (I missed when in my notes) and I assume rushing through piety had reformed it, by turn 114 they had already enhanced Islam. India did not found Hinduism until turn 126 but had reformed it by turn 170. By turn 200 I think maybe 5 pantheons had been founded but would need to check.

Turn 150: I had built a trireme to explore the coasts, I had also built the Temple of Artemis and Great Library in Beijing, I noticed the AI did not seem super rushed to build wonders as only Stonehenge had been built elsewhere (although this would speed up with Pyramids and terracotta army being built by turn 200). Note: Have Pyramids and the Mausoleum effects been swapped? And how does this work with liberty unlocking the Pyramids? (according to the tooltip, not actually tested this yet).

Turn 200, Korea spawned turn 190 and Japan spawned this turn as well. I had a chance to take out Koreas 2nd settler on the site of Pyongyang but decided against trying to strangle them in their cradle so I had a better idea of how a game would play out.

I founded Guiyang on turn 184 to secure south west China and gain access to Spices, if able to settle on Jungle I probably would have gone one more South East to potentially get the Ivory. I still have yet to complete my first road connection and have only just finished Construction Tech. Beijing is building a settler and I am looking to colonise the Philippines for my next city. Despite feeling like I am researching extremely slowly I have joint top Tech score with 15 technologies.


I plan on posting another update once I have got through some more of the game, if there are any questions please let me know, I also will post a state of the world at turn 200 when I get a chance.
Interesting, my first reflex in almost any RFC game is to explore and meet but you didn't seem focused on that at all?

In my aborted run I started off with an explorer but quickly noticed a lack of Ancient Ruins, I seem to remember Civ 4 had the tribal huts but I think they've either been removed or are not yet implemented.

East Asia also appears to lack any city states or other Civs apart from Nanjing so there was no incentive to try and discover them to perhaps set up alliances or trade routes.

With the Rhye's and Fall loss of contact mechanic I dont feel the same need to make contact with European/Middle Eastern Civs as I will lose contact with them shortly anyways. Adding to this is the movement of Embassies to code of laws, which delays maintaining contact compared to if it was still at writing (probably a good move as otherwise it would be too easy).

In the turn 200 screenshot you may notice I starting sending out triremes to scout out the sea lanes, this was useful for discovering natural wonders and making contact with Sri Lanka. I also sent the horseman from spawn to Central Asia but there were a lot of barbarians and in the end I considered the need to defend Beijing from the Barbarian pressure coming from Siberia/Mongolia more important.
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maybe we can move the start to Xi'an and mark a goal to found Beijing and move capital there (same as Phoenicia with Carthage)... what do you think?
There are no other worthwhile city states to add
Sorry for the delay in responding.

I think Beijing works very well as a start, current capital and it would be hard to keep up with the number of capitals China has had. As I discovered later its importance makes the battle for Beijing against the Mongols a critical point in any China game.

One change I considered would be adding wheat near Beijing, either replacing the rice or placing it on another tile. Apart from historical reasons (North China is apparently a big wheat region) this would allow extra food for Beijing, firstly from getting a farm up sooner than the plantation and secondly from a granary. You may have already considered this and decided against it though so no worries.
Finally got back to the playthrough after some busy life stuff.

Turn 212: Fifth city in the Philippines, chose to settle here for a canal city as well as access to the luxury resources. I dont think the city map has a name for a chinese city on this specific tile though as Wenzhou is a city in Eastern China,


Turn 216 & 217, firstly we get a declaration of Friendship with Korea and then on the next turn we found Confucianism with tithes and Pagodas. I was getting religious pressure from India and didnt feel Hinduism with Holy Warriors was right for where we were going.

Turn 230: Nanjing completed Machu Pichu, the economic engine of China at this point along with Guangzhou giving me a massive edge in gold generation over the AI

Turn 250: My scouting horseman met Atilla who declared war and immediately killed him.

Turn 255 & 257: We team up with Japan to deal with the first pirate camp I had seen in East Asia. On turn 257 Atilla abruptly made peace with me (I didnt see the Huns do anything in Central Asia but from a quick look over at Europe they seem to have been pretty effective).


Turn 260 and we settled Palembang. with a view to exploiting that volanco as well as using the luxuries nearby for trade (this was a major source of income once other civs starting making contact).


Turn 274 and Indonesia City state has spawned along with a Pirate stronghold on Taiwan which is quickly dealt with. During this period we also build plenty of wonders, The Oracle, Petra, Temple of Kulkan and Great Wall were shared between Beijing and Nanning. On Turn 300 there was confirmation China had 8 wonders to the rest of the worlds 4. I also looked around at the civs I had met and noticed by turn 300 most still did not have code of laws so any embassies were one sided. I think this may have been due to the difficulty setting, I tend to go down a few levels when playing a mod for the first time and may have needed to be higher (or otherwise China is a currently good beginner civ for RFC 5).

Turn 305, dealt with pirates on Sumatra north of Palembang. Send out Triremes just in time to see Persia begin a slow collapse. Another civ that I later discovered was France also lost its capital about nowish (approx turn 320). Started to pop great writers and using them for culture. We also pledge to protect and ally Indonesia (via a big bribe).

Turn 323 I found Surabaya on Java, the Bannanas and Fish would help this city grow extremely quickly. For some reason I thought by owning the dangerous rocks my units go go through them but I must have been wrong, did send a Tireme to scout round Australia by controlling the Ocean tiles.


Turn 337 overlook of the Empire, Iron Plough tech has really motived me to get farms down as much as possible and drive city growth. In the south barbarian elephants are a constant headache so I have a garrison down there. My Neighbours are lagging behind significantly in tech and also in economy with constant deficits (due to the difficulty level being too lower I suspect). Of course its all about to kick off in the desert north west of Beijing but I will save that for my next post.

Just want to highlight a few bugs/inconsistencies here:

Visual bug with invisible mountains north of Everest (the two blank hexes), I've seen this bug in unmodded Civ 5 and was wondering if anyone else had noticed it.


Civil Service description in the Tech tree mentions food from grassland increasing, I didnt notice this coming into effect and wonder if either the description/tool tip is wrong or if the tech effects arent working?


Spoiler for later, at some point I took Turfan and as you can see was not getting any production from the city centre.

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