Another poll for christians.

[Eukaryote]

How many people would go to hell when they die if Jesus had never been crucified and resurected. He would have still existed to spread christianity but would have never have "paid for our sins on the cross." I'm going to say nobody because I don't actully believe hell is a place anybody goes to. It's simply satan's home that exists in another dimension.

 

[Red Door]

It was part of God's plan for Jesus to be crucified, so this thread fails.

 

[Xanikk999]

Im pretty sure as many people would go to hell as there are people being reincarnated as trees or llamas, or people rising from the dead after being crusified... That means NONE!

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, the thread title mentions that your opinion is not the most relevant, so . . .

Anyways, like Al said, part of the plan, but I think theoretically it could have failed. (Not the Crucufixion, but other stages of the Atonement). The result would have been separation from God, so in that sense everyone would go to "hell".

 

[downtown]

We all sin.

no man that has sin can dwell in the glory of God

Thus, if Jesus didnt give us the oppertunity to become clean, none of us can dwell in the Glory of God.

 

[warpus]

no man that has sin can dwell in the glory of God.

So Moses is in hell?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, he would be if not for the Atonement.

 

[Red Door]

So Moses is in hell?

He would be, except for that small detail where he led God's chosen people into the promised land.

 

[Harbringer]

It was part of God's plan for Jesus to be crucified, so this thread fails.

I beleive it was hypothetical, his initial assumption was taht he was crucified in the first place, now if he says that he didnt then the question is obviously hypothetical, now, as for answering the hypothetical questions, as long as you kept making the rite sacrifices and all that jazz, then only the ones that didnt would.

 

[puglover]

Well, he would be if not for the Atonement.

That's it.

Everybody would fall short of God's glory if it hadn't been for Christ's sacrifice on the cross. His payment opened the way for salvation from earthly decay.

 

[Xanikk999]

That's it.

Everybody would fall short of God's glory if it hadn't been for Christ's sacrifice on the cross. His payment opened the way for salvation from earthly decay.

So why did god need somebody to sacrifice himself to convince him of everyone was worth of salvation.

Was he unable to reason that himself?

 

[Red Door]

So why did god need somebody to sacrifice himself to convince him of everyone was worth of salvation.

Was he unable to reason that himself?

No one knows, none of us are God last time I checked.

 

[Cuivienen]

Well, he would be if not for the Atonement.

Yet the Atonement doesn't suffice for other pre-Christ nonbelievers. Why do pre-Atonement Jews get special treatment in admission to heaven when pre-Atonement Hindus or Mithraians or Zoroastrians don't?

 

[warpus]

Well, my thinking is this:

- You can't die with a sin and go to heaven
- Moses died with a sin

Did he have to wait until 30AD to get to heaven?

I don't know what atonement is, but it sounds like it answers this question

 

[Red Door]

Well, my thinking is this:

- You can't die with a sin and go to heaven
- Moses died with a sin

Did he have to wait until 30AD to get to heaven?

Yes, as did everybody after Original Sin was created.

 

[puglover]

So why did god need somebody to sacrifice himself to convince him of everyone was worth of salvation.

The penalty of sin is justly death. God created us, and if we work against him, God has a right to destroy us. As a just God, there was no way to pardon the offenses of man. That's why God himself became a man through Christ. As a purely sinless human, Christ could pay for the sins of all of us, so that anyone who accepts this payment for sin can be saved.

The penalty of sin had to be paid, and God himself paid it for us. That's salvation.

Was he unable to reason that himself?

It wasn't that we were worthy of salvation. God would be perfectly just to destroy us, but out of mercy he saved us. It wasn't anything we did to deserve it - it was a gift.

Yet the Atonement doesn't suffice for other pre-Christ nonbelievers. Why do pre-Atonement Jews get special treatment in admission to heaven when pre-Atonement Hindus or Mithraians or Zoroastrians don't?

Pre-Atonement Jews lived in anticipation of the Messiah. That is the key.

Well, my thinking is this:

- You can't die with a sin and go to heaven
- Moses died with a sin

Did he have to wait until 30AD to get to heaven?

I don't know what atonement is, but it sounds like it answers this question

Remember that Heaven exists outside of our ideas of time and space. He didn't have to "wait" until 30AD. He simply reached Eternity.

 

[Nylan]

We all sin.

no man that has sin can dwell in the glory of God

Thus, if Jesus didnt give us the oppertunity to become clean, none of us can dwell in the Glory of God.

Agreed, although I could be a stickler about when and where the atonement happened. I won't though, as the general idea is more important than the specifics.

 

[GenMarshall]

This thread fails at life. The Crucification is all part of god's plan.

 

[warpus]

This thread fails at life. The Crucification is all part of god's plan.

It was my plan to bake a pie tonight.

Why is it unusual to ask: "Hmm what would have happened if I hadn't baked that pie?"

 

[Nylan]

It was my plan to bake a pie tonight.

Why is it unusual to ask: "Hmm what would have happened if I hadn't baked that pie?"

Not a fair comparison considering what else would not have happened if not for the crucifixion in Christian views. Like existance.