[GS] Antarctic Late Summer Patch Discussion Thread

[Takfloyd]

I mean, so long as people aren't exploiting it, I don't see how your proposals are ultimately better than the existing system.

And using the system as intended is specifically not an exploit, per this discussion, as exploit is being used to refer to using against intended use.

Everyone who plays Civ VI more seriously uses this "exploit". It's literally the first thing that comes to mind to efficiency-minded players when presented with the system, and I guarantee that Firaxis's testers do it themselves and that it's the intended way to play for more skilled players. Same with researching 60% of techs and civics you don't have the eureka for yet but plan to get, and then switching so as to not waste the eureka. It's just basic application of the system that is in place. I would never keep the upgrade policy cards for more than 1 turn when it's clearly a waste to do so.

If the devs didn't want people to play this way, they would change the rules. And maybe that's what they should do.

 

[Wingednosering]

Problem is, the original Policy System in Civ 5 was a pernament one, and nobody was fond of it either, since you had zero opportunity cost (well, except timing),

I think the problem isn't the system, it's that there isn't any worthwhile Policy Cards that yell "oh I have to choose?".

*Raises hand* I really liked the Civ V system...

 

[SammyKhalifa]

*Raises hand* I really liked the Civ V system...

I was fine with the system, but the final patched policies were unbalanced and not fun and there isn't really a decision to be made there.

I do like the new way better though.

 

[Takfloyd]

I think the right way to change the system would be to double down on what they did with a few Tier 3 government policies - make a lot of policies unique to a specific government type.

As it stands, it matters too little which government you are in. Communism should play completely differently from Democracy, but the only difference right now is some small numerical differences. Compare to Civ III for example, where the difference was night and day.

This would de-clutter the policy screen as well - there might be a few too many to choose from later in the game, causing excessive micromanagement.

Furthermore, introduce revolutionary anarchy for at least one turn every time you change governments, as in previous civ games. Make it an investment.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

This would de-clutter the policy screen as well - there might be a few too many to choose from later in the game, causing excessive micromanagement.

I don't know if I think there are too many, but I wish something could be done with the interface there. It's just a wall of red and yellow text boxes and kind of hard to differentiate at a glance.

 

[Disgustipated]

kind of hard to differentiate at a glance.

And don't be like me looking for retainers and almost slotting in retinues. And then one time I was looking all over for professional army only to realize they removed it and replaced it later in the game.

 

[MrRadar]

So far, SM Alpha Centauri an Civ IV probably had the best solutions for policies. Using their systems as an example, Civ VI could give government systems not only certain bonuses but also some negatives, exclude some specific cards from being available under certain governments, assign inherent running costs for each card.

But I'm not sure if frequent swapping needs to be prevented in Civ VI, the game seems to be designed to "game" the system and achieve most time-efficient swap-ins and -outs, and there are plenty of opportunities to do so for free. AC asks for payment for
massive rearrangements of policies, iirc, Civ IV has revolution period which is longer, if you change more policies, but in both those games there are far less policies to choose from.

I wanted to have another go at the Professional Army card, but realised that it is now the late Professional Army card? But I'll have go at it nevertheless The name was very good, but the effects could've been better. Instead of of giving upgrade discounts, which are difficult to justify, such a card could speed up troop training or/and give strength bonus for units, some +5. And if cards had running costs, such a card could be an expensive one to run - you want a good army for a while, better start saving now!

And if not running costs, a single payment for slotting in a card. Half the price when you change the government. There must be some administrative costs because of all this rearrangement, don't you think? If you rearrange often, better be rich.

 

[iammaxhailme]

Problem is, the original Policy System in Civ 5 was a pernament one, and nobody was fond of it either, since you had zero opportunity cost (well, except timing),

I think the problem isn't the system, it's that there isn't any worthwhile Policy Cards that yell "oh I have to choose?".

I prefer Civ 5's policy system because moving around policy cards all the time in Civ 6 is quite annoying, and also the bonuses the cards give seem less... interesting or substantial.

If we could somehow combine civ 6's two tree system (which I like a lot) with civ 5's BUYING policies, I'd like that a lot.

 

[HermannLombard]

the map search function works on pillaged tiles. Very sweet. I don't find myself using it that often, but when I do, it's quite useful. This is especially useful with disasters pillaging your tiles and you miss the message.

I don't have that, unfortunately. I have the new Map Tacks but no search option. The perils of starting a game the day before the patch dropped, I suppose. I'm just surprised that I got one but not the other.

 

[FenrisWolf456]

I think Mali needs to have bonus to production to walls (+1 production per desert) once they hit feudalism. It's either chopping time or wait for oh so long to build walls as Mali.

Considering you can buy pretty much all of the rest of the buildings instantly with all the gold you make as Mali, I think they can 'suffer' the few extra turns to build walls. They may start slow, but it's seeming like they are one of the top-tier civs, if you rank such things.

I paid roughly 110,- € (about $ 125,-it seems). So far I sunk +400hours into the game... Not a bad deal after all and even if I would have played just a tenth of that it would have been decent...

Oh, I am certainly not complaining about what I've paid (Though of course I wouldn't have minded cheaper, but then I could have scouted for early deals or waited for sales. I preferred the convenience of pre-ordering and having it all there for me on release. No muss, no fuss). Civ is by far the game series I have sunk the most time into and I just keep wanting more. I haven't even finished playing all the new civs (or Poland ... I just can't seem to enjoy playing as them), and I want more civs and leaders to be added already.

I completely agree. I even agree that this "Fail" shouldn't have slipped. But we are all humans so that happens...

I haven't even installed the patch since I'm in the middle of a game and therefore stay in offline mode until I'm finished. I hate these limbo games you describe and wait for the hotfix to drop...

Well, strange as it may be, it does seem to have slipped by and was an unknown issue, so there was no reason to not release the patch. I can't see them having known about the issue and going 'ah, ship it anyway' as there was no real pressure to release it so quickly. Sure in hindsight it's a glaring error, but they've gone from probably a couple of people testing things to thousands of players, things will get found sooner with a larger pool of people.

As to delaying the patch ... hard to say. I haven't delayed and my Phoenicia game is playing just fine (and my civ colours and city health bars are back to how they were after subsequent loading). It does seem I am getting the trade deal issues, though, stuff like 20 coal for 29 gpt (which I lowered to 10, they were allies after all ... and if you can't take a bit of advantage of friends, who can you?)

 

[Tyroq]

Problem is, the original Policy System in Civ 5 was a pernament one, and nobody was fond of it either, since you had zero opportunity cost (well, except timing),
...

Yes, I always liked Civ 4's government system better than that policy mess Civ 5 threw at us. Does anyone remember those turns of anarchy we'd have to go through to change policies? Decide to end slavery in your country? A turn of anarchy for you! Decide to adopt Free Religion and get the benefits of all religions in your borders like you're momma-flippin Ghandi? Another turn of anarchy for you! I will say I've have enjoyed 6's system a lot more than I ever did with 5. But it does feel too extreme on the easy, cheaty side. I have never once paid gold to change my policies or had any other ill effects. It doesn't have the realism feel that 4 had.

 

[Josephias]

Just a little message about the origin of the new Norwegian palace and the possible origin of the new German palace:
German palace

Spoiler Possible inspiration :

Main inspiration seems to be Ehrenburg Palace in Coburg, Bavaria, which served as the main residence of the dukes of Saxe-Coburg. The central/main tower doesn't match, though.

I would place my bets on Charlottengbourg Palace. Even if the color is a bit off, the shape of the tower and the double roof on the sides, seems to fit.

Spoiler :

 

[S1AL]

There certainly are many more reasonable options, e.g. Make changes possible only when you change the government, or only when a new era is entered.

I would however settle with an easy to implement option of a cooldown period e.g. 10 turns. A policy can be „unslotted” or „re-slotted” only after the cooldown period has passed.

This makes little sense with the policy system as designed. Most of the policy cards are useful for brief periods of time, not to mention the fact that they come up intermittently. I'm not interested in having to wait X turns to change my civ's focus so that the game can feel more like civ 5.

 

[agonistes]

Yes, it's AWESOME that this has been added. Additional melee units have been added at Diety and Immortal too so that is even better.

I hope "Improved leader victory preference weighting" will speed up the times it takes the AI to win games.

It would have been awesome if it was done at all levels of difficulty. Doing it just on deity and immortal makes deity and immortal even less challenging, because it handicaps the ai more than the player.

I like it because it extends the life expectancy of the city-states. But it weakens the ai's position, and the ai needs all the help it can get.

 

[Giskler]

Am I the only one who hates the new great works drag and drop system? How am I supposed to move items between museums at either ends of the great works screen like this? It's awful.

 

[iammaxhailme]

Am I the only one who hates the new great works drag and drop system? How am I supposed to move items between museums at either ends of the great works screen like this? It's awful.

Yeah I don't like it, although maybe I'm just not used to it. I can't think of any compelling reason why they changed it

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Yeah I don't like it, although maybe I'm just not used to it. I can't think of any compelling reason why they changed it

Consistency with other parts of the game.

 

[Ondolindë]

Just a little message about the origin of the new Norwegian palace and the possible origin of the new German palace:
Norwegian palace

Spoiler Inspirational/origin building :

Stortinget ("Great Thing"), the seat of the Norwegian parliament in Oslo. Frankly I would've expected Firaxis to use either the Royal Palace or some sort of Viking Age-inspired building. Either way I'm glad Norway finally has its own palace model.

German palace

Spoiler Possible inspiration :

Main inspiration seems to be Ehrenburg Palace in Coburg, Bavaria, which served as the main residence of the dukes of Saxe-Coburg. The central/main tower doesn't match, though.

Thanks for sharing those. I love when they add those details to the game. It makes it more fun for sure.

Am I the only one who hates the new great works drag and drop system? How am I supposed to move items between museums at either ends of the great works screen like this? It's awful.

I agree. I just want the window to scroll sideways or something.

 

[Disgustipated]

t would have been awesome if it was done at all levels of difficulty. Doing it just on deity and immortal makes deity and immortal even less challenging, because it handicaps the ai more than the player.

I like it because it extends the life expectancy of the city-states. But it weakens the ai's position, and the ai needs all the help it can get.

City states are falling left and right on my current Emperor level game. I couldn't find enough to get the political philosophy boost. I'm not sure how many are left at this point, I'm pretty sure I got at least 7 or 8 notifications for city states being conquered.

How am I supposed to move items between museums at either ends of the great works screen like this? It's awful.

I believe the arrow button works, but as you can expect, this is extremely awkward for right handed users since the arrows are on the right side of the keyboard and you use your mouse with your right hand. It is awful.

 

[Delvi]

Developers said something about a hotfix for trading?