Antifa: There are Monsters Everywhere!!!!

[Hamid.H]

It sadly says too much about @GenMarshall that he liked this tweet even after the posts where I challenge you over lies written.

I keep trying to see the person who escaped the alt-right, and here he is running hand in hand with your posts where you cite alt-right and far-right sources, and invoking the name of Andy Ngo.

How can we discuss the thread if calling out such falsehoods are promoted as not liking the "narrative"? This is ideological poison. Things that never happened with no evidence of them happening weighted the same as evidenced, factual events. What a world.

You folks enjoy your echo chambers, and talk of Omaha Beach. Just skip all the hand-wringing over name calling in the future. Because this page is full of it.

so hes former alt-right and im a former socialist democrat. we agree on this issue and were from two totally different spheres.

your accusation doesnt make an ounce of sense.

youre in the echo chamber dude. its you. its always been you.

dont feel bad though i had to come to the same realization.

 

[Angst]

I’m more on the lines of punching an authoritarian, both Neo-Nazi and an Antifa thug.

Again, just putting it out there for clarity, Antifa aren't categorically authoritarian. At all. They naturally mostly lean left and many of them are on the extreme left, but whether they are anything from authoritarian communists to anarchist communists varies. From my experience, through personal acquaintances and research, most of the extreme left of Antifa is anarchist. The fact that someone is willing to use violence or thinks of violence as a civil option, whether contextually or as an ideal, doesn't make that person authoritarian. It can however mean that person is violent, or believes the tools of violence is sometimes necessary. This is very much ingrained in our current default, as there is plenty of violence we find acceptable in the status quo.

Mind you, I'm not arguing for or against anything here. I'm just tired of this whole discussion turning into mud by framing things wrongly. If one wants to argue against something, they actually should be arguing against that something, what it actually is

 

[Kyriakos]

From my experience, through personal acquaintances and research, most of the extreme left of Antifa is anarchist.

That's my impression as well.
Although that brand of "anarchist" usually involves having no clear idea of what would supposedly take the place of the current system or anything similar.
Taking away authority from TPTB sounds cool, most people want that. But if nothing is in power, things quickly become an even wilder jungle with warbands and orc waaghbosses.

 

[Angst]

That's my impression as well.
Although that brand of "anarchist" usually involves having no clear idea of what would supposedly take the place of the current system or anything similar.
Taking away authority from TPTB sounds cool, most people want that. But if nothing is in power, things quickly become an even wilder jungle with warbands and orc waaghbosses.

Well, it depends. I know both (of) Antifa people that are anarchist as a method and resemble orcwaagh and (of) Antifa people that like Marx and The Conquest of Bread, and actually have an idea of what kind of anarchist organization they want. Often anarchism is portrayed as Mad Max, but I think it's misrepresented of what anarchists usually want. At least the non-Antifa anarchists I know believe anarchism is a path to a much more peaceful and prosperous life, and are more earlobe piercing bookish types.

 

[Gorbles]

so hes former alt-right and im a former socialist democrat. we agree on this and were from two totally different spheres. your accusation doesnt make an ounce of sense.

your in the echo chamber dude. its you. its always been you.

dont feel bad though i had to come to the same realization.

An echo chamber of one doesn't sound like much of one

But naw, you're still deflecting. You have no proof. You wandered into this thread with claims and nothing to back them up with. You agreeing with GenMarshall relapsing into alt-right sources doesn't make you two from different spheres. It just means you were never much of a social democrat.

This thread was meant to be about evidence. Yours didn't stack up. Your response was to call people names and engage in bad-faith right-wing strawmen. Very social, much democrat. I went to the effort to investigate the links you posted and for what? For you to call people liars, and claim that the only reason people can't see the truth in your terrible news sources because they've decided not to. You directly ignored every single counterargument in favour of personal attacks and moving goalposts.

"echo chambers", indeed.

 

[Estebonrober]

Security Guard Formally Charged with Murder in Fatal Shooting at Conservative Rally in Denver
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...g-at-conservative-rally-in-denver/ar-BB1abGqB



https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/1...ty-guard-for-nbc-affiliate-in-custody-983045/

CHAZ-CHOP ‘Internal Security’ Shoot and Kill Black Teen, 16 and Critically Injure 14 Year Old
https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/07...ck-teen-16-and-critically-injure-14-year-old/

Ok. So we have two more items up for evidence now. Neither stand up to the merits of being “leftist” violence meant to shut down free speech. I will say the security guard one is close but if we include him then every police murder of anyone gets included as well and puts the right in a far worse light. (He was acting as security and his client was being threatened with bodily harm). I have not done that in general. The only time I cite police violence is at these protests where they used excessive force over and over again and police state tactics such as randomly establishing curfews and then enforcing them violently within minutes.

Also as the OP I do feel compelled to point out once again that I am not condoning leftist violence either. My point here is that it is far overblown on the right to justify right wing police state violence that is literally state sanctioned. This is an intensely important point. When a leftist does attack some right wing troll it is usually prosecuted or would be if it could be, this is obviously not the case when police are beating you with batons.

Finally the one thing you are all doing in contesting my point is bringing up antifa as responsible for all the riots across the nation this summer and that’s just silly. There is no evidence to back that and there is ample evidence that says it was not the case and most protests were peaceful. BLM had some protests get away from them but even in those cases there is evidence that it was police that initiated the rioting.

no one should condone violence imo, but state sanctioned violence is far worse in any light.

thank you. And remember if you are this sensitive about antifa punching a nazi in the face, maybe you should just punch yourself in the face and pass the middle man.

 

[Traitorfish]

I’m more on the lines of punching an authoritarian, both Neo-Nazi and an Antifa thug.

Presumably this punching will carried out by law enforcement officials, whose use of violence to repress free speech is not considered to be authoritarian on the ground that they have a badge.

 

[GenMarshall]

I keep trying to see the person who escaped the alt-right, and here he is running hand in hand with your posts where you cite alt-right and far-right sources, and invoking the name of Andy Ngo.

Would CNN and MSNBC report Antifa violence directed against counter protesters and/or bystanders? My gut instincts tell me they won’t and they’d likely cover their butts. I’d rather gather my information from all sources, including independent journalist.

Last I checked, ABC and it’s San Francisco affiliate are center-left according to media bias check (and ABC is part of the mainstream media mind you). But I guess anything and anyone that criticizes and sheads light on Antifa’s action is automatically flagged far-right.

How can we discuss the thread if calling out such falsehoods are promoted as not liking the "narrative"? This is ideological poison. Things that never happened with no evidence of them happening weighted the same as evidenced, factual events.

So if Antifa knocks me upside the head with a bike lock when I’m minding my own business protesting for free speech in front of Twitter’s HQ, is that not considered evidence that Antifa committed violence even if I was bleeding profusely out of my head and there’s full unedited video evidence of the event?

 

[Hamid.H]

My point here is that it is far overblown on the right to justify right wing police state violence that is literally state sanctioned. This is an intensely important point.

well what the hell do you expect when you have antifa whos objective is to beat the hell out of them?? of course theyre going to look to the police to do something about it and they arent going to care if the police beats the holy hell out of them.

the people getting beat on by antifa want the police to beat the hell out of antifa - um, thanks capt. obvious?

its also not overblown. people on the left are killing people, looting, and burning down buildings.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Would CNN and MSNBC report Antifa violence directed against counter protesters and/or bystanders? My gut instincts tell me they won’t and they’d likely cover their butts. I’d rather gather my information from all sources, including independent journalist.

Last I checked, ABC and it’s San Francisco affiliate are center-left according to media bias check (and ABC is part of the mainstream media mind you). But I guess anything and anyone that criticizes and sheads light on Antifa’s action is automatically flagged far-right.


So if Antifa knocks me upside the head with a bike lock when I’m minding my own business protesting for free speech in front of Twitter’s HQ, is that not considered evidence that Antifa committed violence even if I was bleeding profusely out of my head and there’s full unedited video evidence of the event?

You just keep falling back into that ditch that you claimed to have climbed out of, even if I was to believe you about your claims, you're equating violence that emerges from antifi protests to organized killings by the far right.

It's disgusting, your equivocation disgusts me and is the type of crap so often used by the alt right and their gullible marks.

 

[Estebonrober]

well what the hell do you expect when you have antifa whos objective is to beat the hell out of them?? of course theyre going to look to the police to do something about it and they arent going to care if the police beats the holy hell out of them.

the people getting beat on by antifa want the police to beat the hell out of antifa - um, thanks capt. obvious?

its also not overblown. people on the left are killing people, looting, and burning down buildings.

fudging stupid as **** does not even begin to cover this take at this point. You can’t defend the fact that the boogeyman the right wing media machine makes out of antifa is far out of proportion to the threat posed. That fact that I have found myself here repeatedly taking on this nonsense for over 100 pages (previous threads included) indicate just how pervasive this fear machine is in your minds.

you can’t even find actual cases. And not one yet that I was not already aware of. Should I post more of right wing violence? Or maybe more of governments shutting down speech not only here but maybe across the world?

 

[Estebonrober]

Let me sum this up again.

No one is condoning violence.
Left wing violence is not significant at repressing speech.
There is scant evidence of left wing violence anyways. Riots involving looting are criminal in nature and not indicative of political orientation even at a BLM protest. Also people have been caught doing these crimes as false flags and are facing charges.
The boogeyman is not worth the fear you are giving it, the people telling you about the boogeyman as you drive home every day should worry you. (I listen to these insane shows so no I’m not in an echo chamber).

 

[cardgame]

I condone milkshaking/egging, like that CHAD australian? kid, but apparently that's terrorism lmao

 

[Estebonrober]

I condone milkshaking/egging, like that CHAD australian? kid, but apparently that's terrorism lmao

he got his ads kicked but it looked like it was worth it for him.

 

[Hamid.H]

you can’t even find actual cases.

theres been tons of cases posted in this thread by several people. just stop lying man. everyone knows.

 

[GenMarshall]

Left wing violence is not significant at repressing speech.

Given the psychological effect it has, I’d say it does suppress free speech by which people fear getting their heads bashed in with a bike lock by Antifa when they attend a protest, even ones that advocate free speech. Though part of me wished the police did a better job at keeping the two groups separate. But the majority of the Antifa violence I’ve seen reported have taken place during the night or close to or after sunset.

Though I do question why Antifa showed up to a free speech rally in front of Twitter HQ (or at least one of their offices) and started harassing the protesters there.

 

[cardgame]

Though I do question why Antifa showed up to a free speech rally in front of Twitter HQ (or at least one of their offices) and started harassing the protesters there.

Well, why were they protesting twitter? Was a nazi banned?

 

[Arwon]

I don't know how somebody could have watched American police spend two months shooting people for protesting against the police shooting people, and come away with the conclusion that the greatest threat to a free society is when scruffy punk kids disrupt [imageboard*] nofap meet-ups.

*the censorbot doesn't like the website-that-rhymes-with-floorplan i guess.

Really could have just closed the thread here, it hasn't advanced since

 

[GenMarshall]

Well, why were they protesting twitter? Was a nazi banned?

This may be going off-topic. But in large, they were protesting Twitter's censorship policies that they feel unfavorably targets conservatives. Given that a black man, Philip Anderson, was a participant and organizer of the free speech rally (and yes, he was granted permit from the city of San Francisco to host a protest). They wouldn't give two craps about a neo-Nazi getting banned.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Neo nazis make up a constituent part of the Conservative cause so logically they would take issue with them being banned