Antonius Block's Star Spangled Slaughter-European Team

[col]

Originally posted by ControlFreak

More Scouts! What do we do with them when we're done popping huts?

We park them on every iron outcrop we can find
(or are we not going to go the resource denial route?)

Why does the AI have more cities than we do? With that start position we should be able to out-expand anything and anyone. We NEED granaries in our settler cities even if we are going for Pyramids - and I prefer to give masonry to my closest rival and let them build it for me

 

[ControlFreak]

I started a Dotmap but the Upload function seems to be down.

I'll describe it and get the map up ASAP.

Red Dot 4NE of Capital, (1NE of Wheat.) At first this seems a little to much overlap and I contemplated putting it on one of the hills N of the wheat. The reason I ended up with it here is that we're short on workers and I want to be able to share the really valuable worked cows. This leads me to a comment about Teohaucattle. I think it would have been better to be S or SE. I know that would have lost one of the cattle but having two of them in the first radius requires a serious overlap to be able to share them. Had we settled SE 1 tile, they would have be in the second radius and the red dot would culture fill the gap and be able to share the cows with less overlap. If we has settled S, the Red Dot would be moved to have its own cow and a shared cow. Teo would still have two cows either way. The S spot would be on the capital side of the river which would shave 1 turn off of all our moves until engineering. Alternative Red Dot would be on the hill, very little overlap but not have a big food bonus. We're going to have to have another wasted irrigated grassland to get water to the wheat so right now, its not as powerful as the already irrigated cows.

Moving on...

White Dot 3SE, S from Capital, on the hill across the river. it will have half hills, half grassland, share the wheat with the capital and grab the 2BG near the river. This will be a high sheild site with some mining. Great for cranking military. Alternative would be 1 tile NW on the correct side of the river but with a lot of overlap on the capital. We really need the wheat bonus for this city so that we can have enough food to work more hills.

Blue Dot 4SW, W (NE of Gold on river). I'm thinking this is a hill so settling on it will give us a food bonus (2 food from city on hill). Once the Jungle is cleared it will grow a little. Out of Despotism we can irrigate the grass under the jungles and get enough food to work all three gold hills. A first ring city with three gold will definitely be good for science/income. A side effect will be the sheilds generated from working all those mined hills. Could build us all the science wonders and leave the AI in the dust techwise. In between, it could be adequate at generating military units. Just don't build workers here since the food is scarce. A granary will help this too.

Purple dot on plains between hills, on coast E of Northern gold. Good colossus cite and could be productive with a good mix of tiles including a couple floodplains and the hills. Not to mention coastal tiles if a harbor is built.

I didn't go any farther but there are some "like to haves" in mind. The delta area with the two fish is a great spot. Somewhere in the hills that grabs some gold and the floodplain is also good. Fill the rest of the grassland with some optimal placed cites that can share the cows if possible.

We are definitely going to be rolling in the dough. I recommend going for Republic ASAP to capitalize on the extra cash/lower corruption. We'll have enough in the coffers to pay for the unit cost and happiness, Monarchy would be a mistake. I would like to make a bid for the spaceship. I've never done it and this seems like the way to go for this map with the reduced civs and all our gold for science. If you are all warmongers then go ahead and veto me. I like stomping too.

Stay tuned for the picture.

@col welcome, cross poster. You losing GOTM is...well...ho hum...since someone has been persuing the green ambulance like every month. Did you lose on purpose again?

I agree that settler farms need granary ASAP but if the pyramids are going to complete in 20 then its probably better to just go settlers until it does.

 

[ControlFreak]

My Dotmap (whenever the upload server works):

 

[ControlFreak]

@col

I grabbed (and unzipped) the save game without a problem. Could be the server is struggling again.

 

[col]

yeah - I'll try later.

OT - re GOTM I was involved in another ahem challange with Phil martin to win fastest 100k culture. I reached 100k just after 1800 but unfortunately another civ had 51k (I checked later). I reached 140k when the French launched. I knew it was an all or nothing effort - but the score gives me a chance of the green ambulance. it was an actual loss! I HAVE milked a couple of games for score then lost deliberately - my reaction to some of the more extreme competitors

Agree with red dot and white dot. It will be a long while before blue dot is productive and is a low priority. Purple dot will need a harbor to get any decent food - but we'll need a port for trading and / or ships later.

Any more lux in sight?

 

[col]

Got it this time. Will play later tonight and report.

 

[ControlFreak]

Originally posted by col
yeah - I'll try later.
Agree with red dot and white dot. It will be a long while before blue dot is productive and is a low priority. Purple dot will need a harbor to get any decent food - but we'll need a port for trading and / or ships later.

Any more lux in sight?

Agree that Blue is lowest priority.

Purple will have 1 or two flood plains depending on how the culture crosses from boston and whether the desert on the corner of the river is on or off the riverbank. However, a harbor would be a plus for trade. Note that We would probably end up with 2 citizens working FP, 4 working hills including gold until aquaduct is built. Harbor gains no workable tiles, just trade.

 

[Banzai]

I was monitoring this thread at work and hardly anything happend. I go snowboarding after work, I come back and look!
- Col has arrived! Welcome!
- We have a dot map!
- We have five players and five different playing styles.

This game is going to be fun!

First the dot map.
I can see it! so the server must be up and running..
I like the white and pink/purple dots
The red though has way too much overlap. 6 tiles with teo and 3 with capitol! maybe move it northwest or north?
Blue dot requires lots of worker attention and we don't have workers. The spot is ok, but I think it has the lowest priority.

@Col. Nice to have you with us. We can use an experienced player. We are playing the Americans
We almost had a granary in Teo. Stapel could have build it by switching to barracks, whip and switch back (and whip again). He decided to build a temple instead.
I think it is too late to build one there now. It can build settlers and grow back fast enough until the Pyramids is finished.
We are not playing a pangea map, so relying on the enemy to build the Pyramids and capture it is a risk. I would rather see it finished.

Are we going to put scouts on strategic resources in enemy territory in order to prevent them hooking it up?
I consider that an exploit!

Good luck!

Banzai!

 

[Banzai]

Me: The red though has way too much overlap. 6 tiles with teo and 3 with capitol! maybe move it northwest or north?

Col: Agree with red dot

 

[ControlFreak]

Originally posted by Banzai
We have five players and five different playing styles.

This game is going to be fun!

Thats the best part of SGs, learn what you don't know from others who do things differently from you.

Originally posted by Banzai
The red though has way too much overlap. 6 tiles with teo and 3 with capitol! maybe move it northwest or north?
Blue dot requires lots of worker attention and we don't have workers. The spot is ok, but I think it has the lowest priority.

Yes, I mentioned theres a lot of overlap. I moved it that close for two reasons and both of them are cows. If Teohuacattle is on constant settler duty, it will be losing 2 citizens every x turns. Depending on how large we hold the population at, we'll endup not being able to work the cows or having the food be so much extra that its wasted. Putting Red dot close enough to use the cows when Teo cant will actually make better use of our food than not having any overlap. Another key to a settler factory is to keep it's population below 6 for the smaller food basket. That means that Teo will at most need 6 of its 21 tiles. I don't think sharing 6 tiles, two of which are powerhouse tiles is a big deal.

Originally posted by Banzai
I think it is too late to build one (granary) there now. It can build settlers and grow back fast enough until the Pyramids is finished.
We are not playing a pangea map, so relying on the enemy to build the Pyramids and capture it is a risk. I would rather see it finished.

Are we going to put scouts on strategic resources in enemy territory in order to prevent them hooking it up?
I consider that an exploit!

Agree its too late on the granary. Also agree scout denial is an exploit.

 

[Banzai]

@ControlFreak
I understand what you mean now and I hope you are right.
I also hope it won't turn into a micromanage nightmare
btw. We don't have to irrigate another grassland tile to bring irrigation to the wheat tile. We can chop the forrest, irrigate the plains underneath.

Banzai!

 

[col]

Loaded save and initial look round. First thoughts.

The Capital city will take 75 turns to build Pyramids. WTH?? We cant afford it! We can change it to a granary that will still take 7 turns. It should have been one of our first builds. It will help CC grow much faster if we really want to build a wonder there.

Teotihuacattle is pulling 6 food. This is NEVER needed. 5 will fill the granary in 4 turns too and we dont waste the last 4 foods (6x4 -20). We need to adjust it to make 5 and put the rest into shields. Why is that worker irrigating?? We have enough food here. Any more will be wasted. This could be a powerhouse but needs mines.

Boston will grow very rapidly if those flood plains are irrigated. It could be a worker factory. We need more workers! Two or three quickly would be invaluable. We need our silks connected asap so we can drop the lux rate.

What kind of game are we planning? That jungle will slow any invasions right down.

I havent moved or changed anything yet but it seems to me we need to plan our cities production a little more. I would like to change CC from Pyramids but want to consult on that.

 

[Stapel]

Hmm, just got hoem and checked all dicussions.

Pyramids was due to 40 and the capitol was due to grow in 4? turns. So that makes pyramids in 25? turns.
That's why I decided to change pyramids in cattle city to temple.

I must admit I am bit uncomfortable with all of this. We never should have build settlers in our capitol... granary first imho.

 

[Banzai]

I don't know what save you are looking at, but the Pyramids will be done in 35 in Capital City and not in 70. And when it grows in a couple of turns even faster!

Teo did not start on the Pyramids but was building a granary at the end of my turn and good have and build it a few turns later, even in one with the whip. It got a temple instead.
Now it takes 4 more turns for a settler.

If we build a worker instead of a scout in Boston, that city will be up and running in no time.

Please Col, check the right save (post #19). You are right about the food surplus. That's my


Banzai!

 

[Banzai]

I took another look at the save.
I think Boston can build workers non stop even without a granary if we irrigate the flood plains.
Teo is so large it can produce at least 5 settlers non stop without any problems.
If it is working 2 irrigated and 1 non-irrigated cattle, it will have a 7 food surplus at size 3 right? It can grow in 3 turns!
The Pyramids will be almost finnished by then and The Capital can produce a couple of settlers too if we want.
We can build the Pyramids faster if we mine the irrigated BG tile!
Don't forget that the Teo-settler-cities will get a granary before they can build one on their own!

I think there is no need to worry.

Banzai!

 

[col]

I'd got the 2590 save Still my comments were valid for that save!
I'll try again with the 2190 save.

 

[Banzai]

Yes they were valid!
The production of the pyramids was started in 2900 bc (7 turns before 2590 bc). It took 139 turns when I started it
I thought with 2 highfood cities we would not need the capital building settlers and started on this project so all our future cities will grow faster.
Maybe this is but it could also be
Can you show us the demographics at the end of your turn?

I'll try to make an addition to the dot map!

Banzai!

 

[Banzai]

There is room for one more city to the east.

Banzai!

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by col
I'd got the 2590 save Still my comments were valid for that save!
I'll try again with the 2190 save.

They were for that safe... But it was already mentioned we need more mines. In my safe (2190) the silk is being roaded.

Our Capital will grow and than can be MM-ed to speed up the pyramids. Rigth now it is mm-ed to max growth.

I decided not to build granaries, for the pyramids will come quite soon now.

I think Boston should build a few more scouts and start building workers / settlers when we have the pyramids.

Col, you can decide what you think is best! I know you will do the rigth thing. Anyway, disagreeing is th fun of SG, isn't it?

 

[col]

Sounds like a good plan - I'd like to know the location of as many lux as possible and grab them soon if we're planning to build mega-cities. I usually build far closer and limit my city sizes. I guess I'm more ICS than OCP!! Either way we need to expand as rapidly as possible once Pyramids come on line.