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Any chance for a new Colonization?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Boccages, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. ryanmusante

    ryanmusante Regular Supporter

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  2. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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  3. ryanmusante

    ryanmusante Regular Supporter

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    Probably a bad choice of words on my part. Discontinued from further active development.
     
  4. historix69

    historix69 Emperor

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    Population size of the different groups of natives, european colonists and african slaves in the americas was diverse.
    (quotes fom wikipedia)

    The Natives :
    "Over the 1st century and a half after Columbus's voyages, the native population of the Americas plummeted by an estimated 80% (from around 50 million in 1492 to eight million in 1650), mostly by outbreaks of Old World diseases." Other numbers for natives go from estimated 100 million in 1494 down to 5 -10 million.

    European Colonies :

    New France :
    "In the French colonial regions, the focus of economy was on sugar plantations in Caribbean. In Canada the fur trade with the natives was important. About 16,000 French men and women became colonizers. The great majority became subsistence farmers along the St. Lawrence River. With a favorable disease environment and plenty of land and food, their numbers grew exponentially to 65,000 by 1760. Their colony was taken over by Britain in 1760, but social, religious, legal, cultural and economic changes were few in a society that clung tightly to its recently formed traditions."

    "In the middle of the 18th century, New France accounted for 60,000 people while the British colonies had more than one million people."

    New England :
    "The colonial population of Thirteen Colonies grew immensely in the 18th century. According to historian Alan Taylor, the population of the Thirteen Colonies stood at 1.5 million in 1750, which represented four-fifths of the population of British North America. More than 90 percent of the colonists lived as farmers, though some seaports also flourished. In 1760, the cities of Philadelphia, New York, and Boston had a population in excess of 16,000, which was small by European standards. By 1770, the economic output of the Thirteen Colonies made up forty percent of the gross domestic product of the British Empire."

    "The Federal Census Bureau study of 2004 gives the following population estimates for the colonies: 1610 350; 1620 2,302; 1630 4,646; 1640 26,634; 1650 50,368; 1660 75,058; 1670 111,935; 1680 151,507; 1690 210,372; 1700 250,888; 1710 331,711; 1720 466,185; 1730 629,445; 1740 905,563; 1750 170,760; 1760 1,593,625; 1770 2,148,076; 1780 2,780,369."


    Slave Trade :
    "The total slave trade to islands in the Caribbean, Brazil, Mexico and to the United States is estimated to have involved 12 million Africans. The vast majority of these slaves went to sugar colonies in the Caribbean and to Brazil, where life expectancy was short and the numbers had to be continually replenished. At most about 600,000 African slaves were imported into the United States, or 5% of the 12 million slaves brought across from Africa. Life expectancy was much higher in the United States (because of better food, less disease, lighter work loads, and better medical care) so the numbers grew rapidly by excesses of births over deaths, reaching 4 million by the 1860 Census. Slaves were a valuable commodity both for work and for sale in slave markets and so the policy of actively encouraging or forcing slaves to breed developed, especially after the ending of the Atlantic slave trade. From 1770 until 1860, the rate of growth of North American slaves was much greater than for the population of any nation in Europe, and was nearly twice as rapid as that of England."


    When doing a new Colonization game, the devs should consider to expand the focus and include a scenario for the Whole World (Europe, Americas, Africa, Asia, Australia) with many more commodities to trade and lengthen the timeline into late 19th century, so that the player can build railroads and factories and maybe the Panama and Suez Canal. The game should include
    - Age of Discovery / Exploration,
    - Age of Imperialism / Colonialism including Conquest, Colonization, Slavery,
    - Age of Enlightenment (Science, Human Rights, ...) and Revolution
    - Age of Industrialization

    Spoiler :

    Imperial powers in 1898


    Spoiler :

    The areas of the world that at one time were territories of the Spanish Monarchy or Empire


    Spoiler :

    The Empire in red in 1886, by Walter Crane

     
  5. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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    That's fine to me but there should also be good randomized worlds. I don't want to just colonize the real world every time, that gets boring.
     
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  6. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity Supporter

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    As already mentioned, Civilization IV: Colonization is still being modded. There seem to be some confusion about the current state of Colonization modding. Mods have been discontinued or forked into two due to disagreements on development directions. Currently the most active mod is We the People, but the codebase has a history of being in various mods for the last decade. It goes Age of Discovery 2 (AoD2) -> The Authentic Colonization (TAC) -> Religion and Revolution (RaR) -> We the People (WTP). Sure RaR was discontinued earlier this year, but WTP started where RaR ended and even included the latest unreleased changes. In other words it's new leadership, partially new people and new goals and design strategies, but essentially the mod is the same to such a degree that it can read RaR savegames flawlessly (one way conversion, RaR can't read WTP savegames).

    We also try to introduce a new concept I came up with for Medieval Conquest (another Colonization mod) where the DLL file (or at least source code for it) can be used for multiple mods, allowing WTP to be the game to mod from rather than vanilla. This will allow other modders to make decent mods without being bugged down by vanilla limitations or lack of programming skills. This might be the first platform for the civ4 engine where it's possible to make a mod, which isn't just a reskinned vanilla, yet it works in network games without the modders knowing anything about network communication.

    If you want to play, then you are in luck. We released a new version today. Release page
    It will naturally require Colonization and I would recommend using the disc version. If you don't have it, then I would recommend the GOG version. The steam DRM has a tendency to cause problems with mods. It's not impossible to use the steam version, but it's better to not have to deal with the problems in the first place.

    We are always interested in new modders joining the team. Usually modding (at least with the civ4 engine) is held back by lack of programming skills. We have the opposite problem as in we are 4 (all professional?) programmers. This mean we have openings for all skills, even just xml modding (which btw I wrote a GUI editor for). Anybody who would like to do anything with Colonization, feel free to contact me directly or post in our forum (my signature).

    I completely agree and it put me off Colonization for way too long. The vanilla gameplay hides that it's actually a really good platform for modding. Also being a standalone game has managed to divide the modding community despite the fact that Colonization is essentially just a big mod for Civ4: BTS. Most of the source code happens to be the same, even down to typos. Most BTS mod components works well in Colonization.

    In fact the "release the C++ source code" approach used for civ4 makes civ4 (including colo) the most modable Civilization game ever and possibly one of the most modable games ever.

    WTP contains all that except for the hex map. Most things can be modded, except for some fundamental graphical stuff like the shape of the plots. This is hardcoded into the game engine.
     
  7. TomKQT

    TomKQT Prince

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    I've never played the original one, so I don't know whether it's the same. I used to play Civ4:Col for some time and I had mixed feelings. I absolutely loved the first part when you colonize the new world, found settlements, trade with native people and Europe, and especially - build a working economy (gather raw resources, turn them into something and then into something even better). I liked the micromanagement of transporting everything around etc.
    But I hate that you cannot play it this way as long as you want, the game forces you to revolute against the king and then you have to fight and it feels too scripted for me. You have a fixed storyboard and you have to follow it.
     
  8. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity Supporter

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    Play a custom game (or multiplayer) and disable timed victory. It's the same with Civilization. Once you reach a certain date, the game ends. I completely agree that having just 300 turns is way too little and the game ends around the time you really get started. Because of this I always disable timed victory.
     
  9. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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    My brother by now has 1000 hours (of which perhaps two-thirds active playtime) in a single normal game speed Religion and Revolution game, and he still has some time to go. That's an extreme case (you can probably finish the game in some 20 hours or so), but it shows how long you can spend on a game with the mod. Would that suit your tastes?
     
  10. mcetnar

    mcetnar Chieftain

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    As an old fan of the original Colonization I was terribly disappointed with the remake they've make on the Civ4 engine. I say remake because that wasn't really a sequel, just a quick cash grab without much effort put into it. I've spent long hours playing Religion and Revolution though and I love that mod. It also managed to prove one thing - while Firaxis can create a good engine, the players actually create better games. If Firaxis ever makes a new Colonization (and I hope they will), they better make sure that it's modable, because I'm sure that the original product will suck. Hopefully not as much as Beyond Earth...
     
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  11. c4c6

    c4c6 Prince

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    Quite convincing. I can almost see them nodding their heads and saying: "Yeah, profound analysis, let's quickly hand over the Holy sources to those experts - so they can save the game and our bottoms."

    (The freedom to express any idea in such style is no sufficient reason for wishes come true)
    .
     
  12. MaryKB

    MaryKB Crazy Spider Lady Supporter

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    I loved playing original Colonization, that was one of my favorite games ever, and I also feel I soooo much more enjoyed those parts where you're building your colonies and trading with natives and such. I wish I could just play that forever, like with slower turn progression (I mean like more turns, not making things slow down), so I could just go on for hundreds and hundreds of turns exploring, settling, growing, and such.

    I do feel it's nice working towards independence, I do like training my Statesmen and improving my rebel sentiment, so I'd have many colonies at like 100% and I felt that's a nice achievement. And I enjoyed my military economy, where I was mining ore to make tools, then making tools into muskets, and I'd have farming colonies where I'm breeding my horses, and training veteran soldiers at my college, and so on. I loved how preachers worked and how you'd generate crosses, I just felt everything worked so well, you know? And I really enjoyed building my trade routes and setting my wagons on those, and how you could just have them working without you needing to do something every turn moving your things around after you've built your roads. Just everything was so much fun to play! Colonization was also one of my first computer games, and I remember how it stood out to me also how you find a decent diversity of gender in your colonists. Oh and I loved building ships!

    I used to play with my sister, she and I would start out with our caravel and two colonists, and we'd use our starting gold to buy another caravel, and so she and I would split up (I liked taking the pioneer, she preferred having the soldier) and we'd each build a colony. And we'd take turns alternating with our immigrants, and we sort of kept track of how much gold each of us made, and that was really fun to do!

    I also played the new one, but like others have said it just didn't feel the same to me, you know? I'm not sure what it was really, but something was just different about it. I don't think I cared much for how natives worked, I didn't like their lands and cities just disappearing because of cultural pressure, maybe that's historically realistic but I don't care, it makes me sad. One of those things about games like Civilization and Colonization is instead of playing how things were (which is totally like you're just reading a history book, right?) you can play how you feel things should've been. I also so much loved the atmosphere in that original game, something just about the colors and music and everything, the new one was just not the same.

    I'd totally be interested in a new Colonization, but I doubt I'll ever see one. I wouldn't mind at all if it's a larger world, and if you could be other nations like China or Japan or something, that could really be a lot of fun. I really like that more personal feel with your individual colonists though, and how it's more about commodities and such instead of abstracts like Civilization is, sort of like a crossover between Civilization and Railroads, right?
     
  13. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity Supporter

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    If a game isn't modable, then it's good for one or a few playthroughs. If you can download mods, it will remain new for years. This is a valid argument for adding mod support regardless of how good vanilla is. Mods will always be able to make a game better. It also happens that good mod support of early access games will provide good mods, which makes it into vanilla of the next release. It has happened a number of times for both Factorio and Rimworld. If the mod support is good enough, then you can even mod the mod loading code itself. There are plenty of reasons for adding good mod support even if vanilla is good.

    That's an interesting approach to adding multiplayer to a singleplayer game. Sounds like fun too.

    There is a Civ4Col mod, which adds China as a playable country, though I can't remember which one offhand. There is also a Colonization mod for the entire world and a proposal for bringing back the railroad to We the People (it was in RaR until it was removed in 2.6). Medieval Conquest copied the concept of tech research to Colonization and actually works rather well with a building where citizens can produce research.

    I would say anybody wishing for a Colonization 3 should try the Civ4Col mods (particularly We the People). Not only is it closer to what we all wanted from vanilla, WTP is in active development, meaning all feedback is considered and a number of the proposals are implemented. We also welcome contributions and new team members, be it programming, graphics or even just writing background information for pedia, playtest or contributing ideas. There are tasks for all skill levels and interests.

    As for how much can be modded, I would say almost everything except for the very basic engine parts (like the map can't be converted to hexes). The Civ4 engine is kind of special regarding modding as it not only allows modding in python (kind of like how many games allows modding), but it also released the C++ source code with most of the game logic. This means units, cities, plots, players, AI etc are all fully modable. I mentioned techs. Adding those requires a new xml file, new memory allocation in the player, new screen (techtree), choose tech popup, saving all data related to techs and research progress as well as modding which units can be build etc. Even though vanilla was released without any of those requirements, all of it can be modded in because we have the game logic source code. We can move on to even more game altering changes, like using two maps like Master of Magic. We can completely rewrite combat to be more like MOM. I don't think it will happen due to the workload, but the game engine supports it and we have access to enough code to make it possible. My point is that you shouldn't hold back with ideas. The engine can handle much bigger changes than any other Civilization engine, be it before or after civ4.
     
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