Any point in acquiring 'a little bit' of tourism

[padlock]

If I'm not going for a cultural victory, and don't intend to get enough tourism to overwhelm my opponents culture (in order to flip their cities or send them into unhappiness), is there any benefit to getting any tourism at all? Is it an all or nothing strategy or is there some use to having a little bit of tourism?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

A little bit of tourism defends you from Ideological unhappiness
(Pressure is their level of influence on you - your level of influence on them). So if you can get the 10% or 30%... That reduces ideological unhappiness)

 

[MonorailCat]

A little bit of tourism defends you from Ideological unhappiness

Don't you need culture for that?
Culture = defensive
Tourism = offensive

Thats how I understood it.

Edit: read your post again. So Tourism benefits on the defensive too. Didn't know that.

 

[Cymsdale]

I don't believe tourism gives you defensive benefits, but the works that provide tourism provide culture as well.

 

[Bibor]

Tourism is always nice to have. You don't need to go absolutely crazy with it though. Choose one city with a few great work buildings, add Hotels and Airports later for some decent output. If I'd had to choose which wonder to go for in regards to "passive tourism", I'd go for The Broadway. 3 great musical works (one free), easy to get theming bonus (esp. since you don't need concert tours in this case) and I often have a spare great engineer at this point (or enough faith to buy one).

 

[SamBC]

Also, every source of tourism until Hotels is also a source of culture. So, boosting tourism boosts culture (for defence and social policies, which are very handy)

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I don't believe tourism gives you defensive benefits, but the works that provide tourism provide culture as well.

No it was stated the "Pressure" you receive from another player is

Their pressure v. you (their tourism v. your culture)
0%->0
10%->1
30%->2
50%->3
100%->4
200%->5

Minus your pressure v. them (your tourism v. their culture)

So increasing your tourism decreases the pressure on you (assuming you can get to 10, 30, or 50 etc. %)

 

[damnyankees]

I think the ultimate answer is that no, there's no point at all. This is one of the biggest flaws with BNW - tourism has no purpose other than to win a culture victory.

 

[Cymsdale]

I think the ultimate answer is that no, there's no point at all. This is one of the biggest flaws with BNW - tourism has no purpose other than to win a culture victory.

Space ship parts have no purpose other than spaceship victory.

 

[Ulthwithian]

And, as Krikkit rightly points out, tourism does protect you against the unhappiness you can get from other Civs' tourism.

 

[Zet]

Tourism is an offensive force even when not going for cultural victory due to ideology unhappiness.

 

[Gucumatz]

Tourism feels too limited still. I like playing with great works and all, its certainly more fun - but there ought to be more effects on the main game, perhaps increasing the base gold of a city, additional population [As in the emigration mod] from time to time, effects on the World Congress, etc.

 

[Cymsdale]

If you made it do too much, there'd be no reason NOT to get tourism.

 

[PhilBowles]

A little bit of tourism defends you from Ideological unhappiness
(Pressure is their level of influence on you - your level of influence on them). So if you can get the 10% or 30%... That reduces ideological unhappiness)

I'm not sure how this works, actually - in my first BNW game I was suffering (mild) unhappiness from Ventian ideology despite having a higher tourism output per turn, however my influence (tourism vs. culture) was lower.

So it seems that culture is what defends against ideological tourism, in the same way as it defends against cultural victory. Tourism has no effect.

If you made it do too much, there'd be no reason NOT to get tourism.

You could say the same about science or culture. What (should) make it interesting is the trade-offs required to obtain one valuable resource that affects your strategy in one way, rather than another that boosts a different element of your strategy.

It's still early game in my second BNW game and tourism hasn't yet played a role, but so far I'm liking the concepts - great works, hotels etc. - but remain disappointed in the implementation. It's too static in GP generation (build Guild, fill it, forget it and wait for free stuff), and the absence of any meaningful effect beyond counting down to victory is not only poor design in itself, but is particularly disappointing given the efforts clearly made to make religion - originally mainly an early-game resource with limited use in the late game - relevant game-long.

And while it promised to be more dynamic, as far as I can tell the main way to play tourism isn't very different from culture strategies in vanilla or G&K - aside from Great Works, nearly all tourism is 'converted' from culture by late game effects like hotels, so you still basically want to spam Wonders and landmarks in a small number of high-culture cities.

 

[damnyankees]

Space ship parts have no purpose other than spaceship victory.

Spaceship parts aren't a fundamental game mechanic though. They are just units. And science, the thing that gets you those spaceship parts, has a much, much broader usage than just a science victory.

 

[SamBC]

I don't think your own tourism affects your own ideological happiness - the influence level on you of people with the same ideology does, though.

 

[IAmOzymandias]

does it play into culture flips?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'm not sure how this works, actually - in my first BNW game I was suffering (mild) unhappiness from Ventian ideology despite having a higher tourism output per turn, however my influence (tourism vs. culture) was lower.

So it seems that culture is what defends against ideological tourism, in the same way as it defends against cultural victory. Tourism has no effect.

Not true
Ideological pressure from someone is calculated like this
Their level of influence with you - your level of influence with them

Unknown=0
Exotic=1
Familiar=2
Popular=3
Influential=4
Dominant=5


So if they are Popular against you (4), and you are Unknown to them (0).. then that is 4 "points" (4-0)

However, if you pump out a little bit ouf tourism (enough to get 10% against them),,They are still Popular (4), but you are Exotic (1).. then that is only 3 "points" (4-1)


That means that the way to reduce Ideological pressure is
1) increase your culture->decreases their influence with you
2) increase your tourism->increases your influence with them

And if Ideological Pressure from civs with Different Ideologies is more than that of civs with the Same Ideology... then you get unhappiness

As for the "build guilds get free stuff"... you realize that

1. you can spend policies to increase that amount of free stuff
2. you can pass resolutions that increase the amount of free stuff at the cost of other great persons
3. you can spend policies and faith to Buy that free stuff
4. you can spend to get archaeologists
5. those specialists could be doing something "useful"
6. some extra free stuff can be obtained by investing in world wonders

The Guilds do allow you to get some Baseline tourism for 'free'.. but there are significant 'toggles' if you want cultural victory (or to prevent one)

 

[BrokenSky]

Well surely it at least provides indirect ideological defence via putting pressure on your neighbours to change to your ideology, stopping them exerting ideological pressure on you, because you now both have the same ideology.

 

[Calouste]

Tourism pressure comes from both friendly and opposing ideologies, and if you have the same ideology you don't get the -34% penalty, and most likely will have some bonuses as well (open borders, trade routes, tenets, religion). What that does is help your friends with the same ideology as you defend against the pressure from an opposing ideology. Their cities won't flip if your pressure is higher than the opposing ideology, and because of the positive multipliers, you need less raw tourism.