Anyone else worried about the map expansion feature?

[Disgustipated]

Ancient Greeks were measuring the circumference of the Earth in the 3rd century BCE, and by the 5th century BCE they knew it was a sphere. So it's hard to imagine anyone besides the usual crackpots thought the Earth was flat. And I'm sure even in Columbus' time there were the equivalent of our flat Earthers today. A small minority of people I'm sure.

As for the map expansion feature, we've seen more today. I'm happy enough with it except the small maps and limited number of opponents and limited Empire size. I still have concerns. I still don't think we are going to see huge maps this game.

 

[Siptah]

Ancient Greeks were measuring the circumference of the Earth in the 3rd century BCE, and by the 5th century BCE they knew it was a sphere. So it's hard to imagine anyone besides the usual crackpots thought the Earth was flat. And I'm sure even in Columbus' time there were the equivalent of our flat Earthers today. A small minority of people I'm sure.

As for the map expansion feature, we've seen more today. I'm happy enough with it except the small maps and limited number of opponents and limited Empire size. I still have concerns. I still don't think we are going to see huge maps this game.

This was a small sized map (4 players + 2 DL). Normal will be 5 players + 3. Large could possibly be 6 + 4, but more isn‘t possible with 10 civs.

 

[chaosprophet]

This was a small sized map (4 players + 2 DL). Normal will be 5 players + 3. Large could possibly be 6 + 4, but more isn‘t possible with 10 civs.

While they could have bigger maps where you could play with less than the optimal number of players at release, with what Ed said before I think chances are we will have just standard at all platforms at release with bigger maps implemented on the platforms that can run it in a 1~2 year time together with more civs being available through DLC.

 

[CivKirk64]

I was probably most worried about the map expansion feature as we are losing the ability on certain map types/ luck of being able to circumnavigate early by stringing along coasts.
Now seeing the stream and intention behind it, I think it is a worthy trade off. Very excited by treasure fleets , the distinction between homelands and distant lands, the idea of finding new civs in the new world. Its forcing people to focus on the challenges of the ancient age, then shifting priorities to exploration and or religion. I'm guessing they are simulating the antiquity age, or just doing an advanced start for the AI in the new world. I'm excited that exploring the seas means finding the safest route through, that you risk damaging your ships if you head through the wrong expanse of ocean.

 

[Krikkit1]

Some thoughts on the asymmetry of the DL + HL in the Exploration Age (since there doesn't appear to be any real asymmetry in Ancient or Modern)

The issues are mostly with the Victories and the Treasure Fleet mechanics.

Military Victory: the New World is less crowded so it is easy for Old World civs to colonize their DL, and hard for the New World civs to colonize the Old World
suggestion... give Military victory points for settlements you control that are
In your DL OR founded by civs that are DL to you
So in the stream, Confucius could get a point by conquering one of Spains new colonies* (it would get doubled because of conquest), or by founding a city in that little empty spot north of Athens)

Economic Victory/Treasure Fleet mechanics: only Treasure resources in New World
Solution here is
1. Have Treasure Resources everywhere, but only specific resources on specific "Lands"
2. You can build 2 types of Treasure Fleet
Distant Lands Treasure fleet (works as seen).. but you get 2 Economic Victory points and a lot of Gold
Homelands Treasure fleet....can build in one of your Homelands that has Treasure resources IF you have a Trade agreement with a Distant Lands civ, then you must get it to the Distant Lands and deliver it to one of the civs there, and both civs get 1 Economic Victory point and a lot of Gold

That way you can get benefits from taking the natives lands and stealing their riches OR exchanging Treasure fleets peacefully (or stealing your neighbors fleets and sending it to them)
and they can get points for taking their land back OR exchanging Treasure Fleet peacefully (or stealing their neighbors fleets and sending it to you)

 

[bite]

Today's stream answered most of my concerns about the Far lands

 

[AriochIV]

Well, at least we know what the mechanic is, but I'm still concerned about the New World/Old World forced narrative getting really stale on multiple replays. Looking at a list of current map scripts and scenarios, at least 90% will be impossible in this system.

 

[MasterPaw]

Today's stream answered most of my concerns about the Far lands

To me remains treasure resource not working both ways and the loading screen in between ages

 

[CivKirk64]

Edit: I've noticed they haven't really touched on trade routes, other than to say they exist. Will Distant resources fetch more value to your trade network? Example, they make it back home, now I have tobacco, I trade it from that city to inland empires on the home continent? Also would be an interesting layer later to add that your colony settlements depend on a trade route back to bring them things like Iron, Horses, if they aren't also nearby to survive, can you trade the orginial luxuries back to the colonies to improve their happiness?
I'll also add that I can't wait to do custom game, Giganto map, halve the number of civs , select all the non naval powers as starting civ opponents and sit like Giant Golden Homer Simpson on my giant pile of sugar.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Well, at least we know what the mechanic is, but I'm still concerned about the New World/Old World forced narrative getting really stale on multiple replays. Looking at a list of current map scripts and scenarios, at least 90% will be impossible in this system.

I feel like it depends.

On paper, sure, it might be repetive, but in a way I think the first age encourages you to claim as much of your homeland as possible, while age 2 forces you to start colonizing the distant lands.

Depending, this was never possible in previous games, even on continents, the other continent would often be gobbled up by the time you reached Renaissance Era and could traverse Ocean tiles, so this kinda solves that problem?

 

[AriochIV]

I feel like it depends.

On paper, sure, it might be repetive, but in a way I think the first age encourages you to claim as much of your homeland as possible, while age 2 forces you to start colonizing the distant lands.

Depending, this was never possible in previous games, even on continents, the other continent would often be gobbled up by the time you reached Renaissance Era and could traverse Ocean tiles, so this kinda solves that problem?

Unless they actively cripple the Distant Lands players in the Antiquity Age, nothing has changed in this respect from previous continents maps. And in the old Terra maps, there were no civs in the New World at all, just barbarians. The only thing that's different is the treasure mechanic.

 

[Calcifer]

Unless they actively cripple the Distant Lands players in the Antiquity Age, nothing has changed in this respect from previous continents maps. And in the old Terra maps, there were no civs in the New World at all, just barbarians. The only thing that's different is the treasure mechanic.

Well, there’s at least the settlement limit that stops the civs on distant lands from going rogue with settlers

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Unless they actively cripple the Distant Lands players in the Antiquity Age, nothing has changed in this respect from previous continents maps. And in the old Terra maps, there were no civs in the New World at all, just barbarians. The only thing that's different is the treasure mechanic.

I have suspicion that it's possible that the Distand Lands players may actually never be in Antiquity and instead use Advanced Start instead.

Look at the map difference in the livestream, Homeland was completely full of cities, while there was a lot of empty space in the Distant Lands.

 

[AriochIV]

I have suspicion that it's possible that the Distand Lands players may actually never be in Antiquity and instead use Advanced Start instead.

Look at the map difference in the livestream, Homeland was completely full of cities, while there was a lot of empty space in the Distant Lands.

The devs specifically said previously that the AI empires are indeed playing in the Distant Lands in Antiquity, so if they're gimping them they're using some other method.

 

[Evolena]

So, Antiquity Stream 44'15, transcription of the Q&A (from caption + listening to correct one or 2 points):

Sarah: I know something that our players have been dying to hear more about is just what happens on the other side of the map, right, when you start on Antiquity what's kind of going on during that fog of war. We're gonna be speaking to (him?) more in Exploration but is there anything we can kind of speak to (him?)?
Ed: Yeah that that other side of the map is real and it's there and those civilizations are growing and developing on the(ir) very own. You won't interact with them directly but because it is the same game world, you know, they're building what you're going to end up dealing with later, or interact with I should say. And they may even beat you out for a wonder, I think as (has) happened to Carl earlier.
Carl: Yeah, it can happen, yeah.

I don't think that leaves much interpretation about the fact that the other part of the map already exists in Antiquity with civs doing their thing there.

 

[Krikkit1]

I have suspicion that it's possible that the Distand Lands players may actually never be in Antiquity and instead use Advanced Start instead.

Look at the map difference in the livestream, Homeland was completely full of cities, while there was a lot of empty space in the Distant Lands.

I think that’s a simple effect of te settlement cap.

Both Lands have room for ~4 ancient civs (~24 settlements) but the DL only has 2 so by the end of Ancient it is 1/2 empty.

 

[Zaarin]

And I'm sure even in Columbus' time there were the equivalent of our flat Earthers today. A small minority of people I'm sure.

Really, there weren't. There were two kinds of people in Columbus's day: people who knew the Earth was round, and people who were too busy trying to survive to care what shape the Earth was. Biblical literalism was a product of a later age. Not to say there weren't crackpot theories outside of mainstream intellectualism, but I'm not aware of any sort of flat earth theory from that time period.

 

[chaosprophet]

I have suspicion that it's possible that the Distand Lands players may actually never be in Antiquity and instead use Advanced Start instead.

Look at the map difference in the livestream, Homeland was completely full of cities, while there was a lot of empty space in the Distant Lands.

In one hand, they would have more land for less players, with settlement caps and the like, makes sense they wouldn't spread as much.

Alternatively, the distant lands may be divided in a way where part of it is also separated by ocean tiles from the civs in the distant land, so part would always be unreachable for everyone. But this is just an idea I have, no evidence for it so far.

 

[BackseatTyrant]

Funnily enough, the Medieval Flat Earth myth was invented by Protestants to discredit the Catholic church's dogma, and then later taken up by American atheists to discredit Protestant biblical literalism. The ironies of history... This blog post does a thoroughly devastating job at demolishing the myth itself. The blog generally is very good, but the relentless aggressiveness can get tiresome.

Not to mention the fact that the people who genuinely believe in Flat Earth today, do so because of largely anti-Semitic reasons, not because they're "stuck in the dark ages"

 

[BuchiTaton]

The Globus Cruciger (cross above an orb) is a christian symbol used throughout medieval times that clearly represent the world as a globe.
And the most important thing it is also the inspiration for the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch!!!