Anyone has a viable strategy for the Scions?

[Iceciro]

I find the Scions can do decently under Korinna with just Necromancers and the combat units from Order, RoK, Emperyan, OO, or AV. I can ignore the whole metal tree if I really need to.

 

[Sisonpyh]

Argh, another question. Why am I unable to build the Temple of the Gift? Have the requirments for the Doomsayer but no way to build the temple.

 

[odalrick]

The same answer.

Each scion leader is really their own civilization, as distinct as Grigori and Hippus. Only because the default assumption is living humans are they lumped together in one civ.

Korinna has generic religions and Emperor the hero, the Emperor has his own cult and Korinna the hero.

 

[Sisonpyh]

Oh ok, thanks.

 

[Tarquelne]

The same answer.

Arg. I could have sworn either the leader or building texts specifically mentioned that, but nope. I'll fix it.

 

[Iceciro]

Well, I wouldn't say different civilizations: it basically comes down to the fact that the emepror has his own religion that only he can access, but he can't use any of the standard ones, while Korinna has the opposite - she has access to any of the base religions but not the Emperor one.

 

[odalrick]

Well, I wouldn't say different civilizations: it basically comes down to the fact that the emepror has his own religion that only he can access, but he can't use any of the standard ones, while Korinna has the opposite - she has access to any of the base religions but not the Emperor one.

They're as different as most other civs. Grigori has heroes and no religion, clan has warrens, Hippus has horses.

Just because the entire civ happens to be undead and you happen not to be, you think they're both similar. Lifeist!

 

[Iceciro]

Maybe it's because I love playing as Korinna/Xiven and dislike playing as the Emperor. Religion FTW.

 

[shannonlynch]

Korinna the leader gets to build the Vacant Mausoleum lategame and summon the Emperor as a butt-kicking combat unit instead.

I've got Arcane Lore and Korinna the Red is in my capital city; but I don't see an option to build the Vacant Mausoleum... Am I missing something?

 

[Iceciro]

Because only Korinna as a LEADER can build the Risen Emperor/Vacant Mausoleum.

Basically, whichever leader you're playing as, you can build the OTHER potential leader as a hero.

 

[shannonlynch]

I get it now (just call me clueless).

While you're at it - how do you go about getting Alcinus back if another civilization created him?

 

[Iceciro]

Build the Emperor's Dagger unit - you need a level one Martyr of Patria to upgrade it to.
They have an ability called Seek Alcinus that lets you find him, they can move in enemy borders with no issue, and they have another ability that lets them turn Alcinus hostile so they can kill him without turning it into an international incident.

As an FYI, while youd think these are assassin unit replacements, they're not - you need Drama and the Scion theater replacement to build the things. If I remember right you also HAVE to be in the God King civic to build them.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Which brings me to my question: Do you guys think (for whatever reason) the Scions have a problem mid or late game? By "problem" I mean some general loss of relative civ strength that isn't offset by advantage at another stage of the game.

That's been one fairly consistent criticism for awhile, but IIRC it's generally just mentioned in passing, and not often, so I haven't been giving it much weight.

If there is a problem, though, a gets-better-if-you-wait WS could be a good solution. And let me cross something off my little list.

I find that they tend to stall out in the mid-game. The mechanics don't lend themselves to expanding beyond a few cities...and all but one of them tend to be pretty small. I usually find myself with a fairly brutal level 20-something Korinna the Black with Blitz and Cannibalize....and some garrisons. You can still do damage with Pelemoc, but in general their mid-game military is pretty weak.

I also find the HL spread stalls out a bit. Allowing creepers to attack helps a bit (you can feed on the Gretchin that are running around now) but it is hard to force it like you can force forests with elves.

 

[WarKirby]

I also find the HL spread stalls out a bit. Allowing creepers to attack helps a bit (you can feed on the Gretchin that are running around now) but it is hard to force it like you can force forests with elves.

Afaik, the Automatic haunted lands spread which you now get, is in addition to, not replacing, the abilites of the units which already could, to spread HL. You can still put a tile of it anywhere you want with a ghostwalker. And make 3x3 areas of HL with redactors.

For me, the scion midgame is Ghostwalkers. HUNDREDS OF THEM. THOUSANDS.

They're slightly weaker than normal rangers which is a bummer, but the ability to become haunts makes up for that.

Also, you can make HL outside your territory. I find this a very fun thing to do. I send armies of them out into the world, to create HL in random areas far from me. Perhaps to eventually put a city there. They start slowly, but once you get a little area going, 3 ghostwalkers can basically build themselves a little fort of haunted lands, and use the haunt form as necessary to fend off potentially limitless hordes of barbarians, which brings xp.

I find that fun. And it's useful aggressively too, since you can do it in enemy territory. Doing so is an act of war, of course. But if you create a fair amount of ghostwalkers, they're pretty decent for guerilla warfare. It's like pillaging, only better, because the effect is permanant.

Oh, and after you're done spreading HL all around your enemies, you can make peace, and then send in pelemoc to cast succour on them for free population, since they'll be drowning in unhealthiness

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Afaik, the Automatic haunted lands spread which you now get, is in addition to, not replacing, the abilites of the units which already could, to spread HL. You can still put a tile of it anywhere you want with a ghostwalker. And make 3x3 areas of HL with redactors.

For me, the scion midgame is Ghostwalkers. HUNDREDS OF THEM. THOUSANDS.

They're slightly weaker than normal rangers which is a bummer, but the ability to become haunts makes up for that.

Also, you can make HL outside your territory. I find this a very fun thing to do. I send armies of them out into the world, to create HL in random areas far from me. Perhaps to eventually put a city there. They start slowly, but once you get a little area going, 3 ghostwalkers can basically build themselves a little fort of haunted lands, and use the haunt form as necessary to fend off potentially limitless hordes of barbarians, which brings xp.

I find that fun. And it's useful aggressively too, since you can do it in enemy territory. Doing so is an act of war, of course. But if you create a fair amount of ghostwalkers, they're pretty decent for guerilla warfare. It's like pillaging, only better, because the effect is permanant.

Oh, and after you're done spreading HL all around your enemies, you can make peace, and then send in pelemoc to cast succour on them for free population, since they'll be drowning in unhealthiness

I see. I've been neglecting the Recon line. My bad.

Scions really do need ALL of the techs.

 

[Iceciro]

Yeah. I try to go for two supercities in addition to the 2-3 pop satelite cities - one for production (preferably the capital) and one that's generally just plains, hopefully near a river or two, that I cottage the hell out of and use to max research. Because you need a TON of research!

 

[Vorpal+5]

Thread necromancy!

Does a paper or something exists on the usage of Pelemoc Spells? THey are numerous and I'm unsure about them. For example 'Corrupt Quartermaster'. IS it that really? A quartermaster unit (I first need to spot one!) in the tile is given to the Scions? No descs anywhere

 

[odalrick]

Does a paper or something exists on the usage of Pelemoc Spells? THey are numerous and I'm unsure about them. For example 'Corrupt Quartermaster'. IS it that really? A quartermaster unit (I first need to spot one!) in the tile is given to the Scions? No descs anywhere

I'm not an expert on Pelemocs spells. There are two that I use, the one to declare war by recruiting Reborn and, if I'm lucky enough to have an enemy with unhealthy cities, the one to make Reborn without declaring war.

The rest are not clearly beneficial to me and anyway to micromanagey for their worth in my opinion.

Corrupt Quartermaster for instance adds the Corrupt Quartermaster promotion to enemy units in the tile. That promotion adds upkeep cost to the unit and has a chance to expire. So essentially you pay some gold to destroy some gold for the enemy, with some randomness about the exchange ratio.

 

[Vorpal+5]

ok, fair enough about the infos.

I would be interested to know more about creepers. First, it seems there is a life cycle where the old ones get reborn into 2 or 3 young ones, is it worth the waiting time?

Alternatively, I see that you can have one kill himself into an haunted land, is it the thing to do?

The mature one, I believe, have some sort of parasitic ability, how does it works?

What Eldritch magic does really? I click and ... nothing.

Can Haunted land spread by itself? Can it be converted back to normal land?

 

[odalrick]

I would be interested to know more about creepers. First, it seems there is a life cycle where the old ones get reborn into 2 or 3 young ones, is it worth the waiting time?

In Fall Further 051 there is a one in three chance to get a new creeper. So, no, it's no worth it.

Alternatively, I see that you can have one kill himself into an haunted land, is it the thing to do?

Yes. An extra is great.

The mature one, I believe, have some sort of parasitic ability, how does it works?

Arawn's Dust destroys farms and possibly some other / improvements. I don't think declares war, so it's a stealthy way to attack someone. Again I never bother, too much effort for too little benefit.

There is another spell that I've never used.

What Eldritch magic does really? I click and ... nothing.

I don't know any "Eldritch magic" spell.

Wired Wrack applies a debuff to hostile units in a wide area and removes a few buffs.

Can Haunted land spread by itself?

Yes, probably. It does in FF and RiFE, but I don't know about other modmods.

Scions need Ghostwalkers, Haunts or Redactors and it will only happen in their territory.

Can it be converted back to normal land?

Yes, but the method is different in different modmods. Try chopping with workers, Sanctify or Dispel Magic.