[NFP] Apocalypse Mode

[RealHuhn]

I'm getting to the end of my first game in apocalypse mode. It seems clear that AI civs will compete in "Appease the Gods", win, and then do nothing with the soothsayers. It seems to me to be a game for suckers. To win it, you have to sacrifice enough troops that actually are more valuable than the awards. Soothsayers seem to be over-rated ... [snip] (i.e. you speak truly).

So you think yields like this are overrated? Forest fires are amazing. Get as much faith as early as possible, spam sooth sayers and let the world burn around your territory. Then settle near the regrown forests/jungles or buy the tiles with gold. It's a lot of fun.

Spoiler :

This was just my first try. Imagine a game as Brazil with a heavy jungle start for example xD

 

[tedhebert]

So you think yields like this are overrated? Forest fires are amazing. Get as much faith as early as possible, spam sooth sayers and let the world burn around your territory. Then settle near the regrown forests/jungles or buy the tiles with gold. It's a lot of fun.

Spoiler :

View attachment 558271 View attachment 558272

This was just my first try. Imagine a game as Brazil with a heavy jungle start for example xD

yeah... I really wonder if that's what they had in mind when they made up that unit. I'm pretty convinced they built it and conceived it as a weapon to use VS your enemies, not to use on your own tiles. But then, why in the world would I go and use them on a neighbor and help HIM/HER get better yields ?

I dunno. I'm very confused with the soothsayer usefulness too. And why would I waste perfectly good units on an appease the gods ? Unless I had monks that were useless from midgame on, all units can be useful.

anyways

 

[MrRadar]

And why would I waste perfectly good units on an appease the gods ? Unless I had monks that were useless from midgame on, all units can be useful.

Just use a few anticavs. They were made for this purpose.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

The Soothsayers may be bugged

The yields from triggered disasters (Floods, Storms and Volcanoes) don't seem to actually increase (they are strictly destructive), yet yields from Forest Fires provide positive yields. I think there's an oversight somewhere.

 

[James_Champagne]

I completed my first Apocalypse mode game recently (marathon mode, huge maps, small continents). The game actually ended before the end game stuff could be triggered (the AI won a diplomatic victory sometime between stage 6 & 7 of the climate change), so I was forced to go the "one more turn" route just to see the fireworks. Thought it was pretty cool when the game map got dark and the comets started to hit. After around 9 comets or so (and a few solar flares) the map's coloring turned back to normal, though the comets kept coming (with solar flares every now and then). Strangely enough, after some time had passed, the map once again got dark... as for the other disasters, as noted, flooding and volcanoes seem to die off once the comets start falling, though every now and then I would see a volcano go off or a river flooding. After about a hundred comets there were still a large number of cities remaining on the map, so I stopped. Conclusions: if you want to get to the end game stuff in Apocalypse Mode maybe consider turning off the diplomatic victory conditions, and also maybe use a smaller map, so that the impact of the comets is more consequential.

Other things I noted: in the first 3 eras there were hardly any World Wonders constructed at all (entering the Renaissance, only 8 wonders had been constructed, 2 of them mine), which made me wonder if the AI was spending more time rebuilding from disasters than focusing on wonders... but then in the Renaissance suddenly 12 Wonders were created, so... seemed to be less missionaries out and about as well. One thing I did note was that almost none of the AIs had sizable armies (Gran Columbia, for example, went through almost all the game with a military strength of 0). Again, I figure the AI was spending so much time repairing damaged districts or building builders that they just didn't have much resources to devote to military units.

 

[Loerwyn]

I tried it for the first time this evening (I still have a fair bit to go of the game), and it was fun. I disabled Diplo Victory and I started as Poland, otherwise standard settings at Prince on Continents, and it's fun. I had probably my best ever Poland start (and it was gooooooood), and my favourite part was using Levy Military on two nearby city-states and just throwing their armies into the volcano. I ended up with a score of about 250ish (mostly warriors and swordsmen).

 

[fotonut]

Played my first Apocalypse game as Lady Six Sky, deity, standard map - lost four of my nine cities and several spaceports to comets, and sadly was on the turn I was supposed to get the science victory with 53 light years when Wilhelmina snatched diplo victory right out from under me. Ugh. But I enjoyed it; the comets definitely brought an added urgency to the end game.

During the game I paid absolutely no attention to Appease the Gods or Soothsayers, not sure what I missed out on with that.

 

[fotonut]

Played my first Apocalypse game as Lady Six Sky, deity, standard map - lost four of my nine cities and several spaceports to comets, and sadly was on the turn I was supposed to get the science victory with 53 light years when Wilhelmina snatched diplo victory right out from under me. Ugh. But I enjoyed it; the comets definitely brought an added urgency to the end game.

During the game I paid absolutely no attention to Appease the Gods or Soothsayers, not sure what I missed out on with that.

Oh, it was rather amusing to see that even with 4 of the 9 cities crushed my remaining cities were all reporting they were "ecstatic".

 

[Uberfrog]

My multiplayer Apocalypse game with friends has heated up. My capital was one of the first cities to be wiped off the map!

Now I just have to send off my Alpha Centauri rocket before any more of my cities bite the dust. It’s a really tense moment at the start of each turn, as without the cinematic camera it’s not obvious where the comet is landing.

This is the first medieval start we’ve done too, it certainly seems to make the AI more competitive tech-wise. That, and the WC resolution that gives everyone the same number of nukes...

This is by far the most fun endgame I’ve had in Civ 6.

During the game I paid absolutely no attention to Appease the Gods or Soothsayers, not sure what I missed out on with that.

From what I’ve seen their biggest value is in boosting tile yields in your own territory, although without something like the Great Bath this comes at an early cost in terms of population growth. You can get some excellent forest yields in the long run though.

I think Firaxis had a more offensive use in mind, though, and I think they could use a buff here. I had a little utility from triggering defensive sandstorms but in reality the disasters are unpredictable enough and so terrain dependant that the military impact is easy to mitigate.

Maybe they could even allow Soothsayers to summon comets when the climate change progresses enough!

 

[Abaxial]

There seems to be an exploit with soothsayers plus Great Bath (if you can build it before the AI). Put a soothsayer on the BG and trigger a disaster - you get a flood which adds 1 faith to each floodplain tile that gets a mitigated flood. Buy more soothsayers and repeat. The more faith you get, the more soothsayers you can buy. I was playing Maya and had about 17 faith per tile along the river.

 

[oSiyeza]

I dunno. I'm very confused with the soothsayer usefulness too. And why would I waste perfectly good units on an appease the gods ?

Fxs were very confuse to with it. I dont even use it, since the only thing u can do with it is to break the game to exploit the disaster bonus on your tiles. Is a explot but design..
Terrible terrible mechanic. I hope they fix it, or even get rid of it.

 

[AsH2]

Cat Scouts are not enough. I want an Apocalypse Meow version.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Fxs were very confuse to with it. I dont even use it, since the only thing u can do with it is to break the game to exploit the disaster bonus on your tiles. Is a explot but design..
Terrible terrible mechanic. I hope they fix it, or even get rid of it.

100% sure that the Grand Baths and Forest Fires yields are a complete oversight. Rivers, Storms and Volcano eruptions triggered by Soothsayers do NOT provide yields.

Soothsayers were designed to be used as an offensive units, they were not meant to be used in your own territory.

On top of that, their bonuses are quite powerful, particularly the +4 Combat Strength to adjacent units and Automatic sieging of adjacent towns.

 

[oSiyeza]

100% sure that the Grand Baths and Forest Fires yields are a complete oversight. Rivers, Storms and Volcano eruptions triggered by Soothsayers do NOT provide yields.

Soothsayers were designed to be used as an offensive units, they were not meant to be used in your own territory.

On top of that, their bonuses are quite powerful, particularly the +4 Combat Strength to adjacent units and Automatic sieging of adjacent towns.

I'm pretty sure river floods do provide yields. I saw one youtube video totally breaking the game with those. Could be related to the great bath, maybe. I dont even want to try. But if you are correct, I'm not sure that leaves Fxs in a better position as that would mean they did not even tested the new unit.

The adyacency bonus are good, but I don't think you can use disasters as a weapon in any effective way. Does anyone has make it work?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I'm pretty sure river floods do provide yields. I saw one youtube video totally breaking the game with those. Could be related to the great bath, maybe. I dont even want to try. But if you are correct, I'm not sure that leaves Fxs in a better position as that would mean they did not even tested the new unit.

The adyacency bonus are good, but I don't think you can use disasters as a weapon in any effective way. Does anyone has make it work?

It does seem to have been from Great Bath that grants faith for every instance of the River flooding. Which became the new exploit of the month. However, I have not managed to get myself more yields from regular flooding using my own Soothsayers.

 

[Kwami]

A quote from Carl in The Game Mechanic's Twitch stream the other day:

Soothsayers are specifically designed to allow you to boost your own tiles. It would be pretty silly for dust storms to be the only exception, Chat. Tsk tsk for telling him that.

That was after TGM used his Soothsayer to create haboob dust storms in the desert, which definitely fertilized tiles.

So, it looks like all of the disasters are meant to fertilize your tiles.

 

[Alucard648]

A quote from Carl in The Game Mechanic's Twitch stream the other day:
That was after TGM used his Soothsayer to create haboob dust storms in the desert, which definitely fertilized tiles.
So, it looks like all of the disasters are meant to fertilize your tiles.

For instance, trigger volcanic eruptions to fertilize farming sites.
Also one question: can player use soothsayer to drop comets on enemy cities when it`s apocalypse time?

 

[Canadian Bluebeer]

Well, either Ulm is cursed in my game, or there's a bug. 14 droughts on just that one city. Virtually non-stop.
30 turn duration (marathon) and it's popped them within 10 turns of each other.

Once the game is almost over, I'll post the save file so you can count'em. Rather hilarious.

note: you cannot repair damaged tiles (farms) during a drought, but you CAN remove them, re-add them via firetuner, and they'll stay,
and be useful... until the next drought hit.

Captured a city. 1000 year flood. Dropped in a dam. 2 turns later, major flood (mitigated), couple more turns, oh look, another 1000 year flood.
hrmm...

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

Apocalypse mode has finally gotten stale for me. Getting nailed by 3 Blizzards in 30 turns SUCKS. I lost something like 20 population and over 50 pillaged/destroyed tiles. I also learned that Blizzards can magically arc too, so that was fun.

I really like the comets at the end but it's just not fun constantly repairing your cities.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Apocalypse mode has finally gotten stale for me. Getting nailed by 3 Blizzards in 30 turns SUCKS. I lost something like 20 population and over 50 pillaged/destroyed tiles. I also learned that Blizzards can magically arc too, so that was fun.

I really like the comets at the end but it's just not fun constantly repairing your cities.

I agree, the high Disaster Intensity isn't worth the end result, especially considering that I think it's pretty unrealistic to play long enough (the game just drags on) to actually see the world get cleaned.

Soothsayers are nice, but overpowered particularly if you win both the +4 Combat Strength to adjacent units and the Automatic-Siege promotions on them, the other promotions are practically useless.

The Solar Flares are fine, but incredibly rare to begin with.

I might mod it so that the Apocalyptic mod actually has the Comet strikes at an incredibly low chance of spawning but spawns at any point.