Apocalypto
- Thread starter Cam_H
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vranasm
Deity
I hope lymond doesn't have some woodoo doll of myself after all those months we play together ;-)
I am really angry at the Lakamha situation I bring the team in.
There is a lot of to think through... we kinda stuck in bad situation imo ;-).
Diplomatic wise it's good, but the tech progress, city production potential, wonders situation, land claimed is worrying.
Will be tough to catch up and the mines limitation doesn't help us too.
I am really angry at the Lakamha situation I bring the team in.
There is a lot of to think through... we kinda stuck in bad situation imo ;-).
Diplomatic wise it's good, but the tech progress, city production potential, wonders situation, land claimed is worrying.
Will be tough to catch up and the mines limitation doesn't help us too.
Norvin_Green
Emperor
Are we that far behind on land? Despite currently being last there is still plenty of land to claim. If I calculated (in my head) correctly we can start chopping & mining after 29 more turns. If we can limp along until then we can hopefully make some hay. Perhaps we build some settlers and workers and get them in position for 200 a.d.?
Thanks for the nice report, V, as for the answers to my previous questions!
I have two more questions now related to your tS:
1. How could you look into the Foreign Advisor screen while you are being required to answer to Monti's request? I have wanted many times to do a checking, but don't know how to. Or is this BtS' or the specific Mod's advantage?
2. What is this miraculous 29/60 you are talking about and having done a mistake there missing to whip a turn earlier, if I understand correctly? I know it's sensitive, but might help better understand the mechanics of whipping where I seem not to be very clear about how to choose the exact timing.
I am very impressed by your correctly judging the situation with regard to Monti's and SB's requests.
The slowing down of the tech rate was a remarkable tool, too! I have heard about going down to 0% till libraries or unis are built, haven't come across using the same technique while waiting for a GrSc. I was laying down some questions about that but then realized that the way to strategize about the research rate avoiding pitfalls - but also forfeiting some subtle advantages, maybe?! - is to move to the 0%-rate whenever a bulb-multiplier becomes available and till it is put into effect. Or it seems so to me now...
I have two more questions now related to your tS:
1. How could you look into the Foreign Advisor screen while you are being required to answer to Monti's request? I have wanted many times to do a checking, but don't know how to. Or is this BtS' or the specific Mod's advantage?
2. What is this miraculous 29/60 you are talking about and having done a mistake there missing to whip a turn earlier, if I understand correctly? I know it's sensitive, but might help better understand the mechanics of whipping where I seem not to be very clear about how to choose the exact timing.
I am very impressed by your correctly judging the situation with regard to Monti's and SB's requests.
The slowing down of the tech rate was a remarkable tool, too! I have heard about going down to 0% till libraries or unis are built, haven't come across using the same technique while waiting for a GrSc. I was laying down some questions about that but then realized that the way to strategize about the research rate avoiding pitfalls - but also forfeiting some subtle advantages, maybe?! - is to move to the 0%-rate whenever a bulb-multiplier becomes available and till it is put into effect. Or it seems so to me now...
vranasm
Deity
^^
press F4 - didn't know about this, but few months ago someone somewhere posted this...
not sure if it's BtS thing only though
about the worker...
better if you look about some threads about whips in S&T, but basically...each pop whip is 30 hammers. The game automatically adjusts the number of pop you need to finish build. There is penalty for no hammers invested.
so worker... he is 60 hammers, next turn you can be for example 8/60, the game tells you that the whip is 2-pop, thus the overflow is 8+production after whip.
if you wait until you have 30/60 the whip is automatically 1-pop whip with 0+production OF, so last point is 29/60 where it's 29+production for 2-pop whip.
The problem here is I forgot we are expansive and as expansive we get +25% hammers for producing workers, meaning that 1 citizen produces 30*1.25 hammers = 37.5 hammers, so the break point is 22-23 hammers (not sure if it's rounded up or down) for 2-pop whip.
As i past the break point we can 1-pop whip the worker with less hammer OF.
The irony here is that I KNEW we're expansive since I took the SS which produces more hammers (19) then base production, I even checked how many we produce with another tiles, but forgot the increased hammers from whip.
The "problem" with timing on expansive is twofold...
1) you're quicker to break point
2) you get more hammers per citizen whip
and if you're like me too used to watching for 3-turns for completion and 29/60 you basically a lot of time just miss the mark...
Was totally blind there.
edit:
as for the diplo requests, it was a bit blind run with high chance of success.
Normally I would never decline Monty if he wasn't in WHEOORN status. The AI should not be able to switch target once in WHEOORN unless he goes out and back.
press F4 - didn't know about this, but few months ago someone somewhere posted this...
not sure if it's BtS thing only though
about the worker...
better if you look about some threads about whips in S&T, but basically...each pop whip is 30 hammers. The game automatically adjusts the number of pop you need to finish build. There is penalty for no hammers invested.
so worker... he is 60 hammers, next turn you can be for example 8/60, the game tells you that the whip is 2-pop, thus the overflow is 8+production after whip.
if you wait until you have 30/60 the whip is automatically 1-pop whip with 0+production OF, so last point is 29/60 where it's 29+production for 2-pop whip.
The problem here is I forgot we are expansive and as expansive we get +25% hammers for producing workers, meaning that 1 citizen produces 30*1.25 hammers = 37.5 hammers, so the break point is 22-23 hammers (not sure if it's rounded up or down) for 2-pop whip.
As i past the break point we can 1-pop whip the worker with less hammer OF.
The irony here is that I KNEW we're expansive since I took the SS which produces more hammers (19) then base production, I even checked how many we produce with another tiles, but forgot the increased hammers from whip.
The "problem" with timing on expansive is twofold...
1) you're quicker to break point
2) you get more hammers per citizen whip
and if you're like me too used to watching for 3-turns for completion and 29/60 you basically a lot of time just miss the mark...
Was totally blind there.
edit:
as for the diplo requests, it was a bit blind run with high chance of success.
Normally I would never decline Monty if he wasn't in WHEOORN status. The AI should not be able to switch target once in WHEOORN unless he goes out and back.
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Got it.
Yeah, EXP throws me off with worker whips. That's why I usually whip settlers into workers or something else - get the most of the hammer bonus. Ofc, Joao is doubly confusing.
FR - V explained the whip OF nicely in a nutshell. Since you don't play BTS and, thus, don't use BUG, you miss out on the UI enhancements that help with these calculations.
Yeah, EXP throws me off with worker whips. That's why I usually whip settlers into workers or something else - get the most of the hammer bonus. Ofc, Joao is doubly confusing.
FR - V explained the whip OF nicely in a nutshell. Since you don't play BTS and, thus, don't use BUG, you miss out on the UI enhancements that help with these calculations.
Thanks for the excellent insights, V, esp. the comprehensive covering of the whip issue and the add-on about diplo. I'll try the F4 next time for sure, hope it works on the Vanilla and WL.
Thanks for the additional clarification with regard to BtS, L! I haven't noticed this while I still had the opportunity to play BtS.
Thanks for the advice, Cam! I have bought a separate disc of BtS, but it didn't work out as the IT Allmighty is omniscient and tells me with a subtle reproach that I can't download the game as I have it on my computer. I bought a separate Vanilla and WL and tried to install them one after the other but the IT Omnipotent ..., yes, the same thing...
I need to regedit, which I kind of chicken out as I am not very compwise, to put it mildly, or buy a new computer, which won't help as I'll definitely go for CIV V in that case, or buy a new hard disc and the new OS and MS Office which doesn't seem a very rational decision for an easteuropean with a salary below the national average in a country that is the poorest in the EU... I am thinking of getting a professional cleanup of my comp - which is quite expensive, too - and combining it with a regedit request, but haven't made the decision yet.
Thanks for the additional clarification with regard to BtS, L! I haven't noticed this while I still had the opportunity to play BtS.
Thanks for the advice, Cam! I have bought a separate disc of BtS, but it didn't work out as the IT Allmighty is omniscient and tells me with a subtle reproach that I can't download the game as I have it on my computer. I bought a separate Vanilla and WL and tried to install them one after the other but the IT Omnipotent ..., yes, the same thing...
I need to regedit, which I kind of chicken out as I am not very compwise, to put it mildly, or buy a new computer, which won't help as I'll definitely go for CIV V in that case, or buy a new hard disc and the new OS and MS Office which doesn't seem a very rational decision for an easteuropean with a salary below the national average in a country that is the poorest in the EU... I am thinking of getting a professional cleanup of my comp - which is quite expensive, too - and combining it with a regedit request, but haven't made the decision yet.
vranasm
Deity
@FR
i would try download the 3.19 patch, install it and then run the Bts exe from the installation folder...
still don't get what is yours problem, because it seems to me that you're mixing too many things.
i would try download the 3.19 patch, install it and then run the Bts exe from the installation folder...
still don't get what is yours problem, because it seems to me that you're mixing too many things.
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Throw a few thoughts out here for the set:
1) I think we should build TGL in Laka. There's simply more hammers in this city at this point. I can whip the Library into it and possibly the worker. Plus with the nanners later, not a terrible spot for NE
2) Somehow the barbs did not get archery. We could pump out a few Holkans and take those cities. Lots of good land to expand into if we can beat Monty or Capac to it.
3) I guess we want the ivory city next. After that, I'm kinda torn on where to settle, but have some ideas. I think we should probably grab the Horse/Wine spot next and basically from West to East choosing the best spots, with hopefully the barbs cities joining the empire. At least they look like actually decent spots.
4) I'll put a turn into Alpha. Without the ability to mine, I'm think we might want to just head straight Monarchy for the happiness. Yeah, we might trade for it later, but sometimes these jokers just never tech Alpha. Other option is to head for Currency now or even Music.
5) I assume we will build an Academy in Mutal. Bulbing Math would open some options though for Music and/or Currency. Academy is nice but until we can grow Mutal it is limited. With TGL we could get another GS for an academy fairly soon.
6) I'll finish the worker now in Itza since it is starting to lose hammers. The newer cities could pump out some holkans.
1) I think we should build TGL in Laka. There's simply more hammers in this city at this point. I can whip the Library into it and possibly the worker. Plus with the nanners later, not a terrible spot for NE
2) Somehow the barbs did not get archery. We could pump out a few Holkans and take those cities. Lots of good land to expand into if we can beat Monty or Capac to it.
3) I guess we want the ivory city next. After that, I'm kinda torn on where to settle, but have some ideas. I think we should probably grab the Horse/Wine spot next and basically from West to East choosing the best spots, with hopefully the barbs cities joining the empire. At least they look like actually decent spots.
4) I'll put a turn into Alpha. Without the ability to mine, I'm think we might want to just head straight Monarchy for the happiness. Yeah, we might trade for it later, but sometimes these jokers just never tech Alpha. Other option is to head for Currency now or even Music.
5) I assume we will build an Academy in Mutal. Bulbing Math would open some options though for Music and/or Currency. Academy is nice but until we can grow Mutal it is limited. With TGL we could get another GS for an academy fairly soon.
6) I'll finish the worker now in Itza since it is starting to lose hammers. The newer cities could pump out some holkans.
vranasm
Deity
just wanted to say that we have at least 2 happy calendar resources... it is on par with monarchy though... (wine and HR)
the tech pace looks very slow for an immortal map... I wonder what is happening with the budh fest on the other continent, especially seeing we got hindu and juda on our :-(
no obligation for the TGL place, especially when I goofed with the worker OF...
as for techs... choosing the right ones now is imo critical ;-)
the tech pace looks very slow for an immortal map... I wonder what is happening with the budh fest on the other continent, especially seeing we got hindu and juda on our :-(
no obligation for the TGL place, especially when I goofed with the worker OF...
as for techs... choosing the right ones now is imo critical ;-)
Mikehendi
IDHEOMHRN
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2008
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When I discovered the 2 barb cities in my turnset, the first one (western one) was guarded by 4 archers, the second one (eastern one) was guarded by 4 warriors.
Not sure what's going on.
Norvin_Green
Emperor
@FR - have you tried a complete uninstall (removing folders and temporary files)?
This is where I stall out in my own games - not sure which direction to take in the tech area. If we want to expand I would choose to go for currency. I can see the argument for calendar or monarchy as well. Do you guys decide based on the type of empire you are trying to establish?
This is where I stall out in my own games - not sure which direction to take in the tech area. If we want to expand I would choose to go for currency. I can see the argument for calendar or monarchy as well. Do you guys decide based on the type of empire you are trying to establish?
vranasm
Deity
yeah this is very tricky decision. Calendar and monarch are both techs which you usually trade for, but with this map...
investing some beakers into monarch/calendar is good thing anyway... monarchy is (or should be from memory) the same cost as alpha/aesth, so we could trade for it 1:1...
but really... this AI's seem so slow... I guess now SB/Monty will be motivated to go along feud line though... so we should hope that HC techs Alpha for us.
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So 3 decisions we need to come to consensus on, although one of them I think is a given:
1) Techs: Monarchy, Alpha, Calendar or Currency
2) Use GS on Academy or Bulb Math (which may play into Calendar/Currency decision)
3) Settle Fish/Ivory next - again, I assume this is a given, but just want to be sure. We could start settling towards the lush land and delay fishing further. We will have the ivory soon without the city anyway.
1) Techs: Monarchy, Alpha, Calendar or Currency
2) Use GS on Academy or Bulb Math (which may play into Calendar/Currency decision)
3) Settle Fish/Ivory next - again, I assume this is a given, but just want to be sure. We could start settling towards the lush land and delay fishing further. We will have the ivory soon without the city anyway.
vranasm
Deity
1) invest few turns into alpha (like 1-3), then PH (if we don't have it) to open monarchy, bank some gold imo, we still have almost no money now
2) depends if you continue to employ scientists in mutal imo, TGL will not kick in sooner then in 10-15 turns (didn't count it), we will now run for few turns 0% slider, but not sure if those "few turns" mean less then 10 or more.
I am slightly in favor of academy here
3) yeah settle that spot it should have the ivory to work
4) just special remark about sailing...we could use it too thanks to the distance towards AI, some scouting WB would be nice imo to open TR's with AI's.
2) depends if you continue to employ scientists in mutal imo, TGL will not kick in sooner then in 10-15 turns (didn't count it), we will now run for few turns 0% slider, but not sure if those "few turns" mean less then 10 or more.
I am slightly in favor of academy here
3) yeah settle that spot it should have the ivory to work
4) just special remark about sailing...we could use it too thanks to the distance towards AI, some scouting WB would be nice imo to open TR's with AI's.
woopdeedoo
King
FR. There are some tools you can use. A little piece of freeware called CCleaner will help remove all hidden temp files, clear browser cache etc. It's pretty handy. Also, MS Sysinternals has a tool called processmonitor. This is also free. Using this tool, you can see exactly what files and registry keys are being denied access when you try and play the game. If you are interested, let me know and I will PM instructions to you.
Mikehendi
IDHEOMHRN
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I don't see why we would 'waste' a GS on bulbing math so we can tech calendar for happyness, when we could just tech monarchy
so my vote goes to academy.
I'd stop running scientists after the GS pops, and start growing cottages again (since we're gonna build TGL GS will pop anyway)
Imo settle fish site first, work the ivory for building monument. I like the idea of preparing some international trade routes (sailing, WB scouting), since currency isn't too far away on our todo list
so my vote goes to academy.
I'd stop running scientists after the GS pops, and start growing cottages again (since we're gonna build TGL GS will pop anyway)
Imo settle fish site first, work the ivory for building monument. I like the idea of preparing some international trade routes (sailing, WB scouting), since currency isn't too far away on our todo list
