Apostolic Palace broken?

[mindloss]

So I was playing a game on Tiny with the AI level one above noble, which is a good challenge for me. Spent probably ten hours playing this game... managed to wipe out the guy on my own continent, secured an advantage, and finally was ready to make my move in 1913... landed on the other guy's continent with overwhelming tech lead and military strength, took his capital city... next turn, there's a vote for diplomatic victory from the Apostolic Palace. He has 200 votes, I have 30, he wins the game, despite my crushing lead.

I read up on why it happened (if all civs have a religion, you can do it), but come on, this seems ridiculous... what was I supposed to do? Raze every city? Make sure I captured the city with the palace first? Wait for the UN? Seems like a broken feature to me.

 

[Lurking Liu]

Lesson of the day: You should have built it first =)

 

[GoodGame]

I agree that it might be a tad broken.

It'd be nice if say Scientific Method gave the player immunity to that kind of situation (like say that tech gave you the option to 'leave' the AP and opt out). Or if the number of your cities that were of his religion were very minute compared to your total cities, then you might just experience revolting with a potential for a new. semi-hostile civ splitting off from yours from the religious cities (only those that were clearly the AP religion, with only that religion present in the city).

So what happens in that kind of situation if you don't have the same state religion as the AP, or have free religion running?

 

[Lurking Liu]

You still get to vote if you have Free Religion running. It's never hurt me, at least...

 

[Astax]

It is totally broken. Had similar thing. Only I didn't even land. The enemy religion spread to one of my cities. I was bamboozled when he won by vote. I had a WHOLE continent in the usual 2 continent game. Having had conquered it in ancient. My lead was beyond crushing. And what's worst I was building the AP way back, and on the same turn I was to get it it was built somewhere else! I didn't even realize I wasn't the one who built it till I lost! Totally dumb.

 

[Lurking Liu]

In a Custom Game, you can always turn Diplomatic Victories off. That fixes that.

 

[LtChambers]

I agree, it's broken. It doesn't even turn off when you get the tech that "obsoletes" the AP!

 

[Astax]

In a Custom Game, you can always turn Diplomatic Victories off. That fixes that.

Yes but that eliminates UN as well. I have resorted to turning diplo off, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a broken concept. Why would my people chose to follow some wacko of another religion when they outnumber the followers of said religion by a huge amount? It's not like UN where it's world's majority.

 

[johnny_rico]

I agree, it's broken. It doesn't even turn off when you get the tech that "obsoletes" the AP!

gift mass media to whoever built the AP. That will 'turn it off'

 

[Horizons]

The fact that it only requires a minimum of one city with the AP's religion in each civ is certainly broken. I played a game as the Babylonians, using spies to switch one civ's civics, then cunningly installing my religion in one of his cities. Meanwhile I had sent caravels full of missionaries to every other AI. Me and my little clique voted for me while everyone else abstained and I won. Easy as pie.

 

[Astax]

gift mass media to whoever built the AP. That will 'turn it off'

I play with no tech trading or bartering. Not to mention if the AI was "smart" he wouldn't accept it.

 

[The Navy Seal]

Well you just have to use more strategy and planing in your wars and before you go to war get target cities and send men to them first get the AP and raze the city.

 

[jpinard]

Would the whole game be better without it?

 

[Amask]

spread the religion in your own cities to get more votes
can it be more obvious???

 

[jpinard]

spread the religion in your own cities to get more votes
can it be more obvious???

What if you don't want the game to end yet? and if you built it, do you HAVE to have elections?

 

[Spearthrower]

It's not broken - that was it working as intended.

Ok, for your first game, you made a mistake and undervalued the importance of the AP. Next game make sure you build it. If you can't build it then either a) if you already have that religion present then spam the religion around your own cities to get a higher voting base or b) if you dont have that religion, then switch to theocracy and stop the bugger from ever coming to knock at your door and ask whether you'd wondered what you're here for.

 

[jackdog]

I have been on the bad side of the AP palace also but remain undecided if its broken. There are several ways as outlined in the thread of stopping it, Build it after founding a later religion is the easiest way as you can then use it yourself. If you get beaten to it then use theocracy until you can capture it or win or something.

I do agree a few modis would be good. Some info screen showing where it is and which cities are under it so you can monitor it would be good forinstance.

Overall it is a bit overpowered but isnj't that much hastle to counter if you pay attention. No-one said BtS was going to be easy....

 

[azaris]

If anything is broken it's playing on tiny maps. I don't see why anyone bothers.

 

[Plex]

So I was playing a game on Tiny with the AI level one above noble, which is a good challenge for me. Spent probably ten hours playing this game... managed to wipe out the guy on my own continent, secured an advantage, and finally was ready to make my move in 1913... landed on the other guy's continent with overwhelming tech lead and military strength, took his capital city... next turn, there's a vote for diplomatic victory from the Apostolic Palace. He has 200 votes, I have 30, he wins the game, despite my crushing lead.

I read up on why it happened (if all civs have a religion, you can do it), but come on, this seems ridiculous... what was I supposed to do? Raze every city? Make sure I captured the city with the palace first? Wait for the UN? Seems like a broken feature to me.

ive had the opposite problem - large size maps its been almost totally irrelevant on a number of occasions. its much more difficult to spread a religion enough to get more interesting resolutions with a larger map

 

[Smythen]

For everyone suggesting to build it yourself -- that helps to prove that its broken!! If the game models a potential world where the civilization (Holy Roman Empire in our real-world case) who build the AP is the one who will nearly always win, then its absurd. The AP is too powerful and needs to be a little nerfed.