Appeasement in the front end of the cycle (of history repeating itself again)

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Neville Chamberlain:

First of all I must say something to those who have written to my wife or myself in these last weeks to tell us of their gratitude for my efforts and to assure us of their prayers for my success. Most of these letters have come from women -- mothers or sisters of our own countrymen. But there are countless others besides -- from France, from Belgium, from Italy, even from Germany, and it has been heartbreaking to read of the growing anxiety they reveal and their intense relief when they thought, too soon, that the danger of war was past.

If I felt my responsibility heavy before, to read such letters has made it seem almost overwhelming. How horrible, fantastic, incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas masks here because of a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know nothing. It seems still more impossible that a quarrel which has already been settled in principle should be the subject of war.

I can well understand the reasons why the Czech Government have felt unable to accept the terms which have been put before them in the German memorandum. Yet I believe after my talks with Herr Hitler that, if only time were allowed, it ought to be possible for the arrangements for transferring the territory that the Czech Government has agreed to give to Germany to be settled by agreement under conditions which would assure fair treatment to the population concerned. . . .

However much we may sympathize with a small nation confronted by a big and powerful neighbor, we cannot in all circumstances undertake to involve the whole British Empire in war simply on her account. If we have to fight it must be on larger issues than that. I am myself a man of peace to the depths of my soul. Armed conflict between nations is a nightmare to me; but if I were convinced that any nation had made up its mind to dominate the world by fear of its force, I should feel that it must be resisted. Under such a domination life for people who believe in liberty would not be worth living; but war is a fearful thing, and we must be very clear, before we embark upon it, that it is really the great issues that are at stake, and that the call to risk everything in their defense, when all the consequences are weighed, is irresistible.

For the present I ask you to await as calmly as you can the events of the next few days. As long as war has not begun, there is always hope that it may be prevented, and you know that I am going to work for peace to the last moment. Good night. . . .

* * * * *

Since I first went to Berchtesgaden more than 20,0000 letters and telegrams have come to No. 10, Downing Street. Of course, I have been able to look at a tiny fraction of them, but I have seen enough to know that the people who wrote did not feel that they had such a cause for which to fight, if they were asked to go to war in order that the Sudeten Germans might not join the Reich. That is how they are feeling. That is my answer to those who say that we should have told Germany weeks ago that, if her army crossed the border of Czechoslovakia, we should be at war with her. We had no treaty obligations and no legal obligations to Czechoslovakia and if we had said that, we feel that we should have received no support from the people of this country. . . .

When we were convinced, as we became convinced, that nothing any longer would keep the Sudetenland within the Czechoslovakian State, we urged the Czech Government as strongly as we could to agree to the cession of territory, and to agree promptly. The Czech Government, through the wisdom and courage of President Benes, accepted the advice of the French Government and ourselves. It was a hard decision for anyone who loved his country to take, but to accuse us of having by that advice betrayed the Czechoslovakian State is simply preposterous. What we did was to save her from annihilation and give her a chance of new life as a new State, which involves the loss of territory and fortifications, but may perhaps enable her to enjoy in the future and develop a national existence under a neutrality and security comparable to that which we see in Switzerland to-day. Therefore, I think the Government deserve the approval of this House for their conduct of affairs in this recent crisis which has saved Czechoslovakia from destruction and Europe from Armageddon.

Does the experience of the Great War and the years that followed it give us reasonable hope that, if some new war started, that would end war any more than the last one did?



And the new voice of Appeasement, an American voice, of our Prime Minister, who hasn't the stones to speak the words himself:

Egypt and Jordan could annul their peace treaties with Israel if it carries out a preemptive strike against Iran, US officials have warned the Jewish state, an Israeli newspaper reported Thursday.

Quoting a high-level Israeli official, Yediot Aharonot said Washington had warned the Jewish state that Arab leaders would not be able to control an angry public backlash if Israel were to mount an attack on Iran.

The newspaper said the US official pointed to the violent response in several Middle Eastern countries to a film insulting Islam, saying: "Today the Arab leaders do not control their peoples, the streets control the leaders.

"An Israeli strike is just what the Iranians need. The entire Arab and Muslim street will take to the streets to demonstrate," the official said.

"What happened with the film against Mohammed is just a preview of what will happen in case of an Israeli strike," he said, referring to the unrest which has spread across the Muslim world, which has so far left more than 30 people dead.

The official said that Egypt and Jordan, the only Arab countries that have signed peace treaties with Israel, would face enormous pressure to annul the accords if Iran's nuclear facilities were attacked.

Israel, the Middle East's sole if undeclared nuclear power, has said it cannot rule out preemptive military action against Iran's nuclear facilities.

Israel and much of the international community believes that Iran's nuclear programme masks a weapons drive, a charge denied by Tehran.

Washington has backed tough sanctions against Iran but has publicly differed with Israel over the timetable for any possible military action on its nuclear facilities.


We're sorry, so sorry now. Itsie bitsie feelings, aw, poor things. Given that they can't control their streets obviously we'll have to let them have NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
 
300px-Atomic_bombing_of_Japan.jpg
 
That color is an assault on the eyes.
 
This is all, of course, assuming Iran IS developing nuclear weapons. I'm not inclined to see an Iraq War 2 situation where we're looking for WMD's and the only ones we find are rusting tubes forgotten decades ago then screw over a whole bunch of new veterans out of mental healthcare.
 
The whole Bush presidency was an appeasement of Iran. And of al Qaida. And of the Taliban. How much do you expect Obama to change?
 
MisterCooper said:
We're sorry, so sorry now. Itsie bitsie feelings, aw, poor things. Given that they can't control their streets obviously we'll have to let them have NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

Are you suggesting that the world is a better place when authority figures are not responsible to the will of the people? Do you think that things are generally better when the men (they're almost always men :rolleyes) in power don't have to listen to their constituents?

Most of your posts on domestic policy don't support this view, so I'm genuinely confused. Could you explain the difference? Or am I misreading you...? :dunno:
 
Are you suggesting that the world is a better place when authority figures are not responsible to the will of the people? Do you think that things are generally better when the men (they're almost always men :rolleyes) in power don't have to listen to their constituents?

Most of your posts on domestic policy don't support this view, so I'm genuinely confused. Could you explain the difference? Or am I misreading you...? :dunno:

I am asserting that Iran and radical fundamentalists are irrevocably set on genocide.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/8stagesofgenocide.html

The islamic caliphate is forming. Obama is playing Chamberlain in another rendition of the same tragedy that has played out many times before.

Hopefully, the members here will mobilize and call for an immediate and massive strike on Iran and the replacement of all American liberal politicians.

This is a fight that will come to us. The longer we wait to engage, the bloodier the toll.

Hopefully, at the foreign policy debate, Romney will commit to military action upon his inauguration.
 
Whereas actually Chamberlain was never so much incompetent as playing to the general anti-war, pro-cooperation sentiments of the British population. And whereas actually there were much better odds for a pan-Arabic, much less pan-Islamic, state fifty years ago than there are now.
 
The newspaper said the US official pointed to the violent response in several Middle Eastern countries to a film insulting Islam, saying: "Today the Arab leaders do not control their peoples, the streets control the leaders."

can we hire people who believe in democracy to represent us abroad when we're promoting democracy?

I'm afraid this is how our politicians view us
 
The round-the-clock killing of U.S. military advisers by Afghan soldiers they are training coupled with some $200 million worth of jet fighters and attack helicopters destroyed in a heavily fortified allied base in Afghanistan by Taliban guerrillas disguised in U.S. military uniforms are the latest reminders that 11 years of fighting have strengthened rather than weakened the Islamist enemy.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...amists_rise_us_on_path_to_nowhere_115516.html

This is what happens when you surrender before sending in reinforcements, as Obama did.

The Islamic world saw Obama coming. And they saw his failure to negoitiate a SOF agreement in Iraq. When we left it was a clear signal to the radicals that we are in retreat.
 
This is all, of course, assuming Iran IS developing nuclear weapons. I'm not inclined to see an Iraq War 2 situation where we're looking for WMD's and the only ones we find are rusting tubes forgotten decades ago then screw over a whole bunch of new veterans out of mental healthcare.

This....

Wake up and smell the coffee.

The Pakistani government declared Friday for holiday – so that people may go against the Mohammed defamatory film on the road

http://auto.1hnews.com/u-s-libel-video-pakistan-gives-citizens-a-day-off-to-protest/2335/

Guess who already has nukes?

Guess who hasn't used them?;)
 
Guess who hasn't used them?;)

What purpose does it serve to remind everyone of the obvious? We haven't lost much moral ground as a nation over Hiroshima and Nagasaki when compared to the ubiquitous and state-sanctioned repression in Pakistan/Iran/etc.
 
I'm sorry, what do you mean here?

I mean to say that it doesn't give Pakistan any moral "breathing space" for being the increasingly-failed, poorly-run military dictatorship that it is just because they haven't used the nuclear weapons they have in their possession. Nor is it condemnatory in comparison that the United States has, considering that outside of the deep south, we generally don't sponsor racial/religious violence against our own citizens.
 
I mean to say that it doesn't give Pakistan any moral "breathing space" for being the increasingly-failed, poorly-run military dictatorship that it is just because they haven't used the nuclear weapons they have in their possession. Nor is it condemnatory in comparison that the United States has, considering that outside of the deep south, we generally don't sponsor racial/religious violence against our own citizens.

OK fair enough. I wasn't trying to claim that all cultures are equal or any such, but them having a nuke clearly hasn't hurt us all that much since they haven't used them.

I seriously question our rights to try to stop anyone from getting a nuke. We have enough to destroy the world multiple times over. What possibly scares us so much? If we had a powerful military, but no nukes, I'd understand it, but short of suicidal terrorists, I don't see why we would care to waste money and human lives stopping people from getting nukes considering we have enough to obliterate anyone stupid enough to use them against us (And more.)
 
I seriously question our rights to try to stop anyone from getting a nuke. We have enough to destroy the world multiple times over. What possibly scares us so much? If we had a powerful military, but no nukes, I'd understand it, but short of suicidal terrorists, I don't see why we would care to waste money and human lives stopping people from getting nukes considering we have enough to obliterate anyone stupid enough to use them against us (And more.)

The whole point of preventing nuclear proliferation is so that no one who would ever have cause to use nukes against us has nukes. It's a cynical, unfortunate truth, but since they exist in the first place the "Pandora's Box" has been opened. If only one power, or a handful of cooperating powers with mutual interests, has nuclear weapons then there is never any concern that they will ever have to be used. Preventing other nations from acquiring nuclear weapons ensures that they can't use them against us, or against their neighbors.

Essentially so long as only the nations that actively benefit from the status quo (us) have nukes, it is far less likely anyone will ever end up actually using nukes. Hopefully.
 
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