Supposing you have an election. Who will the main opponent be? Hamas while supported in some ways, don't have enough absolute support to offer a serious challenge. What will happen (I think) is that there would be too much people offering themselves as the alternative vote. (By too much I mean 4 or more). Hence all the people not wishing to vote for Hamas or Arafat would have their vote divided and ultimately Arafat would be re-elected.
Arafat
- Thread starter Steve Winer
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G-Man
A One Man's War
As far as I recall Arafat's opponenet is his police chief....
Not Nusieba, or some fractions of the PA.
But those never have a chance. The Al Akza brigades threatened anyone who might be active in trying to replace Arafat. Al Akza are part of the Fatah. Fatah is under Arafat's command.
Some Democracy they have
But those never have a chance. The Al Akza brigades threatened anyone who might be active in trying to replace Arafat. Al Akza are part of the Fatah. Fatah is under Arafat's command.
Some Democracy they have
G-Man
A One Man's War
It's the capone model
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
Yes, the odious little manyouk terrorist should be removed, and preferably killed horribly on live international television.
So should the leadership of Hamas, and the other terrorists, as well as the rest of Arafat's criminal gang.
So should the leadership of Hamas, and the other terrorists, as well as the rest of Arafat's criminal gang.
Mephisto
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it's not for you guys to decide, it's the palestinians' choice. send arafat to international court? why not send sharon to international court? he has killed far more people than the terrorists.
i condemn all killings, the killings by isralie army is NOT better than killings done by terrorists. period.
i condemn all killings, the killings by isralie army is NOT better than killings done by terrorists. period.
G-Man
A One Man's War
I believe any court in the world will disagree about it. Killings aimed at an enemy aren't crimes. According to intl law the Palestinian civilians killed during the fightings are the responsibility of the Palestinians.
No. He didn't. As a matter of fact he and the soldiers under his command killed far less.
Fine. You can live quietly with your self righteous moral equivalences of slaughter of innocents to mistakes in the chain of command, but I can't.
Some things IDF soldiers do are not much better than those of terrorists, but I can't comprehend this kind of comparison.
Mephisto
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this disgusts me. this had just surpassed rm's one post to become the most offensive and disgusting post i've read in cfc. are palestinian civilians your enemy? and did you just said that palestinians civilians killed by isralie army are the responsibility of the palestinians? what? you gotta be kidding me.
according to international law, isralie shouldn't be sieging arafat now.
G-Man
A One Man's War
The enemy is the Palestinian militants and terrorists.
The civilians killed are the responsibility of the Palestinians as the Palestinian militants and terrorists don't wear uniforms, put the facilities within civilian population and use civilians for their defense. By doing these things they force the IDF to fight within civilian population and thus causing civilian casualties.
And which intl law says Israel shouldn't siege Arafat? Arafat is the leader of the Palestinian armies and thus a legitimate and lawful target.
Mephisto
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i know that on average there are 3 palestinian civillians killed for every one isralie civillian death. that's for your first comment.
mistake in chain command? well, then isralie had gotta have a pretty miserable command. cause there are way too many mistakes for me to believe they are mistake. don't fool your self, the killings is for revenge. what about the nine guys idf just killed. nine mistakes? could you ask them to correct the mistakes, cause each mistake is a LIFE.
iceblaze, you should get laid more, cause you disgusts me big time.
Mephisto
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yeh, the fact that the terrorists don't wear a uniform that prints in the front 'i am a terrorist' exculpates isralie's blame for killing innoncent people.
which international law? well, israle & palestine are both un members. by un law, one member may not attack another w/o an un resolution. indeed, the whole world is condemning this crap except the bush administration.
All Palestinian Terrorists and Combatants are considered Civilians in those statistics.
Don't follow statistics, follow your logic.
Revenge? That's pretty weird considering the killings are almost unrelated to the chain of suicide bombs.
Miserable command? The only place where the Army was more careful and moral than the IDF is the brits in Northern Ireland, and the situation there was much less hostile.
Check the stats on Afghans killed in the latest war.
Check up the policies of the United States, Britain in Palestine, France in Algeria, Russians, Chinese, Arabs.
Only in the IDF the Ratio is of more caught weapons than dead bodies.
Each mistake is a life, but that does not make them terrorists nor murderers.
Those are the results when your actions push a bunch of 18 yearolds into Urban/Village territory when the warriors look the same as the innocents.
That is of course, no different than going around bombing civilians in a bus for you. You have a twisted logic.
Laid?Sorry, I'm not coming to this forum trying to catch screws.
I'm here to argue
But I am always open for offers, if you are of the opposit sex
Mephisto
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Originally posted by IceBlaZe
All Palestinian Terrorists and Combatants are considered Civilians in those statistics.
Don't follow statistics, follow your logic.
Revenge? That's pretty weird considering the killings are almost unrelated to the chain of suicide bombs.
Miserable command? The only place where the Army was more careful and moral than the IDF is the brits in Northern Ireland, and the situation there was much less hostile.
Check the stats on Afghans killed in the latest war.
Check up the policies of the United States, Britain in Palestine, France in Algeria, Russians, Chinese, Arabs.
Only in the IDF the Ratio is of more caught weapons than dead bodies.
Each mistake is a life, but that does not make them terrorists nor murderers.
Those are the results when your actions push a bunch of 18 yearolds into Urban/Village territory when the warriors look the same as the innocents.
That is of course, no different than going around bombing civilians in a bus for you. You have a twisted logic.
Sorry, I'm not coming to this forum trying to catch screws.
I'm here to argue
But I am always open for offers, if you are of the opposit sex
it's funny that a 17 year old kid accuses me of having a twisted logic. i am a phd student, (edit, thus i value logic) and that's a very big insult you've just done me, young man. anyway, here's my response.
first, i am not accusing idf of being terrorists. that's goes for your twisted logic, kid. what i am saying is that a killing of an innocent life is a killing of an innocent life, regardless of the motive. and the killings (mistakes?) us have done in afghan is equally unforgivable.
killing unrelated to suicide bomb. you blind? everytime there's a suicide bombing, it's always followed by killing of innocent civilians by idf. ok, some of them are as you said, enemies, but a lot of them are not. eg. kids by definition are NOT terrorists. there's no way you can argue that the killing is unrelated to bombing.
yeh, some of the 3000 something palestinians killed are probably terrorists, but most of them are not. don't follow propoganda, follow your brain, if you've killed 3000 terrorists, why are there still so many of them out there? that goes for your first statement.
i am not supporting arafat, and i condemn terrorism big time. but yourself righteous attitude has angered me.
btw, no, i am not a female. and none of the girls i know would want to have sex w/ a guy so full of himself, and attemps to justify killing of innocent people. good luck getting laid.
Tell those stories to your grammy. I don't really care who is a student of what, and that affects none of my opinions concerning your logic.
Actually it is ironic that the most anti-Zionist Jew has a Ph. D from Princeton, and he is an idiot.
I can refute his books on my own.
You said the killings are the same. So if the Palestinian killings are to terrorize, so are the IDF's.
And just because I say you have a twisted logic doesn't mean you need to do the same.
If you are a PhD student you know you need to develop an opinion of your own
That case is not applicable neither in Morality nor in Court.
I hope you're not a Philosophy or a Law student
That is ridicolous.
So the holocaust is as equally unforgivable as the mistake of US Soldiers who killed a few Afghan Nomads during a Delta Force operation?
Short sighted, with contacts. Thanks
I can find one case that breaks your rule, making it obsolete.
It is of course quite obvious that each time the IDF wants to take action (ie Operation) to decrease the power of the Hamas/Jihad, innocents will be killed.
It's inevitable in that kind of territory (Urban), that kind of war, that kind of enemy.
So a 16 year old blowing himself up, holding an AK47 or a Dynamite belt is not a terrorist?
You know, the terrorist who committed the suicide bombing in the Dolphinarium was ONLY 16 and a half.
And there were younger ones in the past.
Sorry to tell you, you are mistaken.
Sorry to tell you, but the amount of killed Palestinians is not 3,000.
The IDF did had his share on the death of innocent civilians, but its the choice of Israeli lives or Palestinian lives, and for Israel the Israeli lives are more important.
The only option where Palestinians won't be killed is if the IDF won't act and won't even commit any acts of self defense (ie shooting at trespassers) at all.
Not accountable.
My attitude is nothing by righteous. I have no shame to say that I preffer Israeli lives saved than Palestinian.
From all the girls I know, and believe me I know more than you, none of them care about Politics.
Well... Okay, two of them care.
One is an extreme leftist and one is an extreme rightist.
The extreme leftist is a good friend of mine, while I barely have any connection with the extreme rightist. Shocking, right?
And I'm not full of myself, I'm just astounded by the ignorance and lack of shame for moral equivalences some members on this forum present.
In reality I am as far as full of myself can be (projected).
But I don't know about you, walking around saying you are a PhD student like it's gonna win your argument
Mephisto
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Tell those stories to your grammy. I don't really care who is a student of what, and that affects none of my opinions concerning your logic.
Actually it is ironic that the most anti-Zionist Jew has a Ph. D from Princeton, and he is an idiot.
I can refute his books on my own.
>>1. kids at your age better be humble than accusing people of being idiots. i speak that from personal experience. & please do not drag in irrelevent issues.
You said the killings are the same. So if the Palestinian killings are to terrorize, so are the IDF's.
>>2. the motive are different, i hope your so intelligent mind would understand at least that by now. but the people killed have equal right to life, despite how they were killed.
And just because I say you have a twisted logic doesn't mean you need to do the same.
>>3. statement illogical, no comment.
If you are a PhD student you know you need to develop an opinion of your own
>>4. i have opinions of my own, but do you? isn't everything you've said thus far been said million times by those extreme conservatives?
That case is not applicable neither in Morality nor in Court.
I hope you're not a Philosophy or a Law student
>>5. no, i am not a law student, please don't insult me. but trust me, i know more about morality than you do.
That is ridicolous.
So the holocaust is as equally unforgivable as the mistake of US Soldiers who killed a few Afghan Nomads during a Delta Force operation?
>>6. holocaust is much much more unforgivable, cause 6 million were killed. there's no comparison. but your example is irrelevent to the argument.
Short sighted, with contacts. Thanks
>>7. ok
I can find one case that breaks your rule, making it obsolete.
It is of course quite obvious that each time the IDF wants to take action (ie Operation) to decrease the power of the Hamas/Jihad, innocents will be killed.
It's inevitable in that kind of territory (Urban), that kind of war, that kind of enemy.
>>8. that's not rule, that's observation. mind you. there are exceptions to observations.
So a 16 year old blowing himself up, holding an AK47 or a Dynamite belt is not a terrorist?
You know, the terrorist who committed the suicide bombing in the Dolphinarium was ONLY 16 and a half.
And there were younger ones in the past.
Sorry to tell you, you are mistaken.
>>9. sure they are terrorists then. how about unarmed children (like 8 years old)
Sorry to tell you, but the amount of killed Palestinians is not 3,000.
The IDF did had his share on the death of innocent civilians, but its the choice of Israeli lives or Palestinian lives, and for Israel the Israeli lives are more important.
The only option where Palestinians won't be killed is if the IDF won't act and won't even commit any acts of self defense (ie shooting at trespassers) at all.
Not accountable.
>>10. not accountable? of course not.
My attitude is nothing by righteous. I have no shame to say that I preffer Israeli lives saved than Palestinian.
>>11. it's understandable, that doesn' mean palestinian life is worth less.
From all the girls I know, and believe me I know more than you, none of them care about Politics.
>>12.
ok, true, they don't care about politics, and i don't say they care. i say that no one likes guys who are so full of themselves, and have no sympathy for lost life.
>>and don't be silly, you don't know more girls than me. do you know me, kid? ok, i don't know you, but your confidence is funny. (and you said you are not full of yourself?)
Well... Okay, two of them care.
One is an extreme leftist and one is an extreme rightist.
The extreme leftist is a good friend of mine, while I barely have any connection with the extreme rightist. Shocking, right?
And I'm not full of myself, I'm just astounded by the ignorance and lack of shame for moral equivalences some members on this forum present.
>> lack of shame for moral equivalence???
In reality I am as far as full of myself can be (projected).
>> emphasis on projected. in economics, we call this projection bias.
But I don't know about you, walking around saying you are a PhD student like it's gonna win your argument
>>13. no, i just stated a fact and that would by no mean winning arguments for me. it's just that most of your opinions are influenced heavily by your culture, the environment you've been brought up. and saddly your childishness equates your value w/ the absolute truth. and everything else you regard as twisted logic. i just want to let you know that though people may have different views, people all agree upon on what's logical & what's not. and your accusation on my having 'twisted logic' is by no mean logical. and i, like most people in academia, know what logic is, if not more so.
Actually it is ironic that the most anti-Zionist Jew has a Ph. D from Princeton, and he is an idiot.
I can refute his books on my own.
>>1. kids at your age better be humble than accusing people of being idiots. i speak that from personal experience. & please do not drag in irrelevent issues.
You said the killings are the same. So if the Palestinian killings are to terrorize, so are the IDF's.
>>2. the motive are different, i hope your so intelligent mind would understand at least that by now. but the people killed have equal right to life, despite how they were killed.
And just because I say you have a twisted logic doesn't mean you need to do the same.
>>3. statement illogical, no comment.
If you are a PhD student you know you need to develop an opinion of your own
>>4. i have opinions of my own, but do you? isn't everything you've said thus far been said million times by those extreme conservatives?
That case is not applicable neither in Morality nor in Court.
I hope you're not a Philosophy or a Law student
>>5. no, i am not a law student, please don't insult me. but trust me, i know more about morality than you do.
That is ridicolous.
So the holocaust is as equally unforgivable as the mistake of US Soldiers who killed a few Afghan Nomads during a Delta Force operation?
>>6. holocaust is much much more unforgivable, cause 6 million were killed. there's no comparison. but your example is irrelevent to the argument.
Short sighted, with contacts. Thanks
>>7. ok
I can find one case that breaks your rule, making it obsolete.
It is of course quite obvious that each time the IDF wants to take action (ie Operation) to decrease the power of the Hamas/Jihad, innocents will be killed.
It's inevitable in that kind of territory (Urban), that kind of war, that kind of enemy.
>>8. that's not rule, that's observation. mind you. there are exceptions to observations.
So a 16 year old blowing himself up, holding an AK47 or a Dynamite belt is not a terrorist?
You know, the terrorist who committed the suicide bombing in the Dolphinarium was ONLY 16 and a half.
And there were younger ones in the past.
Sorry to tell you, you are mistaken.
>>9. sure they are terrorists then. how about unarmed children (like 8 years old)
Sorry to tell you, but the amount of killed Palestinians is not 3,000.
The IDF did had his share on the death of innocent civilians, but its the choice of Israeli lives or Palestinian lives, and for Israel the Israeli lives are more important.
The only option where Palestinians won't be killed is if the IDF won't act and won't even commit any acts of self defense (ie shooting at trespassers) at all.
Not accountable.
>>10. not accountable? of course not.
My attitude is nothing by righteous. I have no shame to say that I preffer Israeli lives saved than Palestinian.
>>11. it's understandable, that doesn' mean palestinian life is worth less.
From all the girls I know, and believe me I know more than you, none of them care about Politics.
>>12.
ok, true, they don't care about politics, and i don't say they care. i say that no one likes guys who are so full of themselves, and have no sympathy for lost life.>>and don't be silly, you don't know more girls than me.
do you know me, kid? ok, i don't know you, but your confidence is funny. (and you said you are not full of yourself?)Well... Okay, two of them care.
One is an extreme leftist and one is an extreme rightist.
The extreme leftist is a good friend of mine, while I barely have any connection with the extreme rightist. Shocking, right?
And I'm not full of myself, I'm just astounded by the ignorance and lack of shame for moral equivalences some members on this forum present.
>> lack of shame for moral equivalence???
In reality I am as far as full of myself can be (projected).
>> emphasis on projected. in economics, we call this projection bias.
But I don't know about you, walking around saying you are a PhD student like it's gonna win your argument
>>13. no, i just stated a fact and that would by no mean winning arguments for me. it's just that most of your opinions are influenced heavily by your culture, the environment you've been brought up. and saddly your childishness equates your value w/ the absolute truth. and everything else you regard as twisted logic. i just want to let you know that though people may have different views, people all agree upon on what's logical & what's not. and your accusation on my having 'twisted logic' is by no mean logical. and i, like most people in academia, know what logic is, if not more so.
Globber
Professional Slacker
http://www.darkpark.com/gfx/********.jpg
stop the flame wars, godammit, the ME won't resolve itself, but none of this will do anything to even calm the situation.
stop the flame wars, godammit, the ME won't resolve itself, but none of this will do anything to even calm the situation.
