ARCHIVED: Discussion Topic - Unit Lines

[General 666]

WOW ! That`s Wyrm. A rather simple model has been turned into a Unit full of effects.

 

[dragonprobably]

Have you thought how you're going to build the Heroes?

 

[Balthasar]

Well Martin, we've got them in boxes, currently. Not at the bottom of the pacific, thankfully.

To get an idea of the present status of the whole mod look at the first post in the Welcome sticky.

To answer the question I think you're asking, the Heroes upgrade from pre-existing items found in the pre-placed cities on the map. (Thought I was kidding about the boxes, didn't you?) When a particular tech is discovered, the item can be upgraded into a hero. We haven't thoroughly playtested the idea yet, but in preliminary testing it seems to work OK, and the AI is doing it too, which was a worry.

As to who's going to physically build the units themselves, Wyrmshadow recently supplied us with a boatload (sub-full?) of units, including a shiny new Nautilus and a Cavorite sphere. There are rumours of others in the works... To see what units we still need, check out the Steampunk Units Request Thread: >here<.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Well Martin, we've got them in boxes, currently.

"Push the button, Max."

Spoiler :

 

[Blue Monkey]

Moderator Action: Moved the discussion about the scout to the unit requests thread. So everyone can see what's actually in the process of getting made.

 

[Balthasar]

Good idea.

 

[Balthasar]

Here's something to whet the whistles of those who follow our progress and for the team to chew on:

Barsoomian Units

These are proposed units for Barsoom (Mars). They are all, of course, subject to revision, remake, upgrade, and deletion after I release the next version of the biq. I have a few comments about them:

1. You'll notice that there are two new Civs in Barsoom, both based, as were the Orovars and Tharks, on the Edgar Rice Burroughs characters: the Firstborn (Black Martians) and the Lotharians (an amalgam of White and Yellow martians).

2. The White and Yellow martians are combined into the Lotharians because no matter how hard I looked, I couldn't find enough units that would be unique enough to be immediately recognized as either. I thought the egyptian motif was in the spirit, if not the letter of Burroughs, in that it captures the religiosity of the Yellow martians and the mysticism of the White martians. And its a good spoof on Stargate.

3. The white martians have the ability to use their minds to create virtual armies and deadly illusions. I've tried to use this to our advantage, as you can see.

4. The Firstborn, or Black Martians, are a race of raiders and pirates, according to the books. I recommend that they be seafaring, commercial, and aggressive. They're not very numerous, though, and only start with one strong city.

5. Barsoom fans will note that the Tharks should be taller and have four arms, that the Chalots should have six legs and that many favorite Barsoomian creatures, like Kaldanes, White Gorillas, Banths, and plant people aren't here. The team is discussing placeholders, and hoping that unit makers will come to our rescue eventually. Otherwise we make the best use of what we have....

6. Some will notice that many of the unit names are reminiscent of Star Wars names. That's because Lucas stole shamelessly from Burroughs. A few of these unit names are inventions of mine, like Mecthan = mechanical + than (warrior). Necessity mothered.

Well, here it is, Ninna - style (this picture is huge):

Edit: See post #262

 

[Balthasar]

British Isles Units There are five civs that populate the British Isles: the British Crown and League of Gentlemen; the Society Secrete Diablolique and the Black Coats; and the Gothic Union. Here is their complete list of units for the current biq (units that we particularly need still are marked by a red square):

Edit: See post #262

As usual, these are subject to review, discussion, and replacement before being made official. I'm hoping that the Unit makers will get an idea from these lists where the requests in the Units Request Thread fit in.

 

[KingArthur]

Splendid job Balth. Things that made me smile were seeing the Crown's multi-unit of guardsmen facing Armoured Phaetons - that would be so typically British I'm not so convinced about the different riflemen that pop up for the Crown in later techs like Rocketry, Battlesuits and Air Tactics. Seems to me the British would have some loopy inventions to fill those slots: I wouldn't mind seeing some red squares around those. And I swing back in the other direction for the British Robotics and Portable Beam Weaponry units - I like your choices there but what about a place for the Captain Spiff unit in Beam Weaponry? Battlesuits: this is where I would have liked to have seen some of aaglo's dreadnoughts -maybe they look too futuristic/too WH40K.

As for the Barsoomian units you did a good job with the material that exists. I would say though that there doesn't look like a lot of differentiation in the unit lines of each civ - doesn't seem to suggest progression but that may be deliberate? But how do you justify better stats between one spear unit and another? It's hard to comment further without seeing the tech tree they fit into.

I hope the unit makers out there are inspired to make some interesting units.

 

[Blue Monkey]

I might have missed it, but shouldn't the British get Sandris' colonial infantry at some point. Maybe "Orientalism".

Battlesuits - maybe one of Aaglo's with a recolor?

 

[Balthasar]

I'm not so convinced about the different riflemen that pop up for the Crown in later techs like Rocketry, Battlesuits and Air Tactics. Seems to me the British would have some loopy inventions to fill those slots: I wouldn't mind seeing some red squares around those. And I swing back in the other direction for the British Robotics and Portable Beam Weaponry units - I like your choices there but what about a place for the Captain Spiff unit in Beam Weaponry? Battlesuits: this is where I would have liked to have seen some of aaglo's dreadnoughts -maybe they look too futuristic/too WH40K.

The toughest part of all this is keeping the technology level for every civ contained to something that we can still call "Steampunk", being, in my mind, as much or more about design as it is about function. Adding automobiles and fixed-wing aircraft was a huge concession for me, but I've made the first auto that appears an upgrade of the settler, and the wright flier an upgrade of the scout, so that the AI will stick to zeppelins as long as possible. I've tried to keep the British to 'real world' technology as much as I could, believing that doing so will help to keep us rooted in the 19th century at least somewhat.

As for the Barsoomian units you did a good job with the material that exists. I would say though that there doesn't look like a lot of differentiation in the unit lines of each civ - doesn't seem to suggest progression but that may be deliberate? But how do you justify better stats between one spear unit and another? It's hard to comment further without seeing the tech tree they fit into.

Again, the idea is to balance the technology so that we don't end up too far from the classic version. The progression from one unit to another that appears similar can be explained by improved technology (metal speartips), training advancement (warrior training), tribal Status (Sun Warrior), or charismatic power (Mage Warrior). My study of Barsoomian technology so far suggests that their tech tree won't look radically different than the one that the humans use.

I might have missed it, but shouldn't the British get Sandris' colonial infantry at some point. Maybe "Orientalism".

We're already using Sadris' Sikh rifleman as Nemo (although I've said that I prefer Bebro's Sikh Rifleman to Sandris'), but I generally agree with the sentiment. I could agree with, for instance, giving Britain an Indian Flintlock with Colonialism and an Indian Sepoy with Orientalism that would upgrade to Indian Frontier Rifleman in the third era. Unfortunately, Sandris' unit pack doesn't include pcxs for any of them.

Battlesuits - maybe one of Aaglo's with a recolor?

Gee, I rather liked the Battlesuits, looking to me like a cross between a diving suit and a steam robot. I even like the color. You guys are probably confused because I didn't give them to everyone. I gave the Black Coats a flamethrower instead, and the British have their own upgrade path. The idea is that they each get a unit of the same relative strength or use, rather than get all the same unit.

As for putting red boxes around certain units, truthfully more than half of these would benefit from customization. I'm most focused on the units that we have absolutely no good workaround for - Propeller Island, Jack the Ripper, Sherlock Holmes and the Invisible Man are at the top of my current "most wanted" list, followed by Annie Oakley, Alice, Carmilla, and all of the Barsoom units, starting with Tharks. And of course, I'd pledge nearly anything for a good Carriage/Coach, and would react like a kid at Chrismas to a Mastodon.

 

[Virote_Considon]

Unfortunately, Sandris' unit pack doesn't include pcxs for any of them.

Are you sure? I've got versions with the pcx files.

 

[Balthasar]

Are you sure? I've got versions with the pcx files.

If we're talking about >these units<, there were none in the folder. If you have pcxs for them, I'd very much appreciate you sending them to me.

 

[Virote_Considon]

These should be it.

 

[Balthasar]

Thank you, good sir.

 

[Ozymandias]

I say, do you chaps have any use for a flame-throwing steam tank?

,

Oz

 

[Balthasar]

I say, do you chaps have any use for a flame-throwing steam tank? ,Oz

I quite imagine we do. Do you actually have one?

 

[Ozymandias]

I quite imagine we do. Do you actually have one?

Check the Units sub-forum tomorrow.

,

Oz

 

[Blue Monkey]

I say, do you chaps have any use for a flame-throwing steam tank?

Check the Units sub-forum tomorrow.

 

[Plotinus]

I say, do you chaps have any use for a flame-throwing steam tank?

I like a forum where people say things like that.