Are any civs or leaders by themselves weak? Are some too good?

[stealth_nsk]

I found Tecumseh and Shawnee to be disappointingly weak because IPs just get murdered too fast for the bonuses to be of any use.

Depends on difficulty level and luck. On Viceroy, I had very strong Tecumseh game with Greek start, quickly befriending as many IPs as possible.

 

[Cannonballninja]

Whatever else you think of the Shawnee, their unique infantry is absolutely bonkers. You want to bop people over the head, +20 combat strength will let you do that.

But yeah, if you managed to befriend a good few independents in the Antiquity, they'll pop back up in the Exploration and you can nab them again.

 

[ggmoyang]

The start of Tecumseh + Greece isn't good as other combinations, but you build enough influence income in antiquity it's a lot better in exploration age.
If you don't mind some exploit you can get many CS in antiquity too.

 

[Orcin]

I am playing on Viceroy, so take this for what it's worth. Both of my games were Tecumseh: Mississippians to Shawnee to America/Mexico. I really like the unique units, traditions, and CS bonuses. I won an economic victory with America and a military victory with Mexico. Yes, not the optimum route with either civ but I am still learning the game and just wanted to try those victory paths. Tecumseh seemed able to adopt to almost anything, although I always found myself struggling to keep up in science. The music was great, unique mound wonders were good, and the city/unit names were interesting. He is definitely worth playing in the geographical path just for those things.

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

On standard difficulty IPs are stronger military then ai civs. I’ve seen them kill civs. I’m guessing the higher the difficulty the fewer IP to suze

 

[CoconutTank]

So it's kind of a distant memory for me now, but how many other folks have tried Russia in the Modern era?

I have to kind of admit that playing Russia was the first time I felt mildly deflated with a civ in Civ 7 (so far). Splash damage siege units sound great on paper, but I didn't get a chance to actually use them. I don't even remember if they had a UI or a UB/UQ. What I was down on most was Russia's own civics tree. Nearly every other civ I've played had something interesting or awesome in their civic tree that I felt like I wanted to get asap, which gave me the interesting problem of which civics to prioritize. I uh... don't really recall any of Russia's civics, except that their final civic just turns them into Advance Wars Olaf

Maybe someone else could enlighten me on how Russia is meant to be played? I will eventually get around to playing them again, but the first impression wasn't interesting to me.

Edit: After a quick read of the official Russia game guide I remember now that the first two civics were mostly turn offs b/c they were offering town-centric bonuses at the expense of cities. My current playstyle tends to lean more on cities than on towns, so that likely affected my opinion, but I don't recall other civ's civics had built-in trade-offs like that. The final civic being overly tundra and blizzard oriented feels a little weird.

 

[Sagax]

So it's kind of a distant memory for me now, but how many other folks have tried Russia in the Modern era?

I have to kind of admit that playing Russia was the first time I felt mildly deflated with a civ in Civ 7 (so far). Splash damage siege units sound great on paper, but I didn't get a chance to actually use them. I don't even remember if they had a UI or a UB/UQ. What I was down on most was Russia's own civics tree. Nearly every other civ I've played had something interesting or awesome in their civic tree that I felt like I wanted to get asap, which gave me the interesting problem of which civics to prioritize. I uh... don't really recall any of Russia's civics, except that their final civic just turns them into Advance Wars Olaf

Maybe someone else could enlighten me on how Russia is meant to be played? I will eventually get around to playing them again, but the first impression wasn't interesting to me.

Edit: After a quick read of the official Russia game guide I remember now that the first two civics were mostly turn offs b/c they were offering town-centric bonuses at the expense of cities. My current playstyle tends to lean more on cities than on towns, so that likely affected my opinion, but I don't recall other civ's civics had built-in trade-offs like that. The final civic being overly tundra and blizzard oriented feels a little weird.

I plan to play them again once Bulgaria is added, but it very much felt like “tundra or bust” - exacerbated by the fact that the only way to “secure” tundra start in Antiquity is by playing as Catherine. The units are okay, but of course won’t shine that much in peaceful games. Obschina yields can skyrocket, but we are talking about mainly bonus food in an age where it matters the least. If anything, they are here to offset the malus from Emancipation Reform. The traditions felt meh, but the civics felt effective, if not a tad boring in their simplicity. You’re definitely encouraged to have a strong culture base that “spills over” into science. That said, so much culture feels like an overkill in a state where Cultural Victory is a sprint and not a marathon.

TLDR: play with Catherine or her mementos, or else they’re just alright.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Catherine + Maya is... pretty good. (Sovereign Difficulty)

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Update: you can actually one-turn Wonders as the Maya, good grief…

I had heard it was possible but I never thought it would be so easy…

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

I had a good run with Tecumseh but it was at a lower difficulty because I was trying to learn the game. I was able to suzerain the vast majority of city states, including some militaristic city states that gave me an additional +1CS for ranged and infantry. I intentionally played a peaceful game for that one, but he can stack some crazy combat strength bonuses. If you get his level 9 memento, that's yet another +1CS. So you could cheese it out with a full +3CS per city state. The major problem with that strat is you need to rely on IPs not getting suzerained first by other players or getting wiped out. That's the Achilles Heel. Speaking of which...

I'm playing Himiko Wa right now and I'm finding her a letdown because she's at the mercy of the AI. The free endeavors were cool in antiquity, but once I got to the exploration age, all the other civs started hating me. I was even allied with Napoleon who then immediately broke my alliance and declared war on me. So if the world hates you, you're pretty much neutered on having any abilities since they all revolve around alliances and getting along with others.

I haven't warmongered or invaded anyone. I've been using my influence to try and bring relationships up, including reconciliation. But since I'm running away with science/culture (nothing to do with Himiko, but I'm playing Mayawaii.) I assume the other civs see me as a huge threat. I guess if you can get the world on your side you can take advantage of her free endeavors and diplomatic bonuses, but right now I'm effectively playing a leader with no bonuses.

 

[Leucarum]

Not technically a leader but unlocked by Achaemenid Xerxes and works well with him - has anyone else tried the Chalcedony Seal momento yet?

+3 Culture/Gold to all unique improvements/buildings if you have at least 3. I naievely assumed that meant per city if you had 3 but no, you just need 3 anywhere in your empire. I tried it out with Aksum spamming Hawilti since they get ano adjacency bonus for other Hawilti... I have not had so much culture and gold in antiquity before...And I wasn't running it with Xerxes to amplify it further, or really optimizing how I set it up!

It would also work pretty well with Mississippi or Han since they can spam improvements easily too!

 

[stealth_nsk]

Not technically a leader but unlocked by Achaemenid Xerxes and works well with him - has anyone else tried the Chalcedony Seal momento yet?

+3 Culture/Gold to all unique improvements/buildings if you have at least 3. I naievely assumed that meant per city if you had 3 but no, you just need 3 anywhere in your empire. I tried it out with Aksum spamming Hawilti since they get ano adjacency bonus for other Hawilti... I have not had so much culture and gold in antiquity before...And I wasn't running it with Xerxes to amplify it further, or really optimizing how I set it up!

It would also work pretty well with Mississippi or Han since they can spam improvements easily too!

The requirement is pretty logical, because you can't have more than 2 unique buildings in a single city in antiquity, and some unique improvements have restriction, like being 1 per city. The effect looks quite strong, but requires focusing on this unique indrastructure.

 

[Leucarum]

The requirement is pretty logical, because you can't have more than 2 unique buildings in a single city in antiquity, and some unique improvements have restriction, like being 1 per city. The effect looks quite strong, but requires focusing on this unique indrastructure.

I think it would be totally fair on quarters. It felt a bit nuts on UIs though... More experimentation required...

 

[stealth_nsk]

I think it would be totally fair on quarters. It felt a bit nuts on UIs though... More experimentation required...

I think Aksum is generally considered on the weaker end as antiquity civ, so finding some spicy combo for them is not gamebreaking.

 

[Leucarum]

I think Aksum is generally considered on the weaker end as antiquity civ, so finding some spicy combo for them is not gamebreaking.

I'm not convinced Aksum use it best TBH. Mississippi could easily take that crown and have a better base kit.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

I played Russia for the first time and was very disappointed. They suffer partly from the issue of most Modern cultural Civs failing to understand engage with the Age’s very narrow Culture Victory, but their biggest problem is that their abilities just feel… meh? Civs from prior Ages absolutely dwarf them in terms of Culture and Science output, and their policy cards don’t really seem to do much either.

I know it’s partly my mistake for choosing the tundra Civ without enough tundra to take advantage of it, but their abilities are so dependent on you having vast swaths of tundra that they are extremely situational at best (and even then, the rewards look slim).

I think it’s a problem that I felt most gravitated towards their unique siege Unit, of all things…

 

[Leucarum]

I played Russia for the first time and was very disappointed. They suffer partly from the issue of most Modern cultural Civs failing to understand engage with the Age’s very narrow Culture Victory, but their biggest problem is that their abilities just feel… meh? Civs from prior Ages absolutely dwarf them in terms of Culture and Science output, and their policy cards don’t really seem to do much either.

I think it’s a problem that I felt most gravitated towards their unique siege Unit, of all things…

Their basic civ ability is good, but very specific map-dependant abilities for civs after antiquity are a little meh. Songhai pulls it off by trivializing economic wins in exploration, but Inca (too rare) and Russia (too late) less so.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

It doesn’t help that their redeeming qualities are sorely limited. The Cossack is- in my experience- always weaker (from a numerical Combat Strength perspective) than the default cavalry Unit of the same tier, even with its homeland bonus applied! Since it doesn’t replace your ordinary cavalry, there is almost zero reason to train them.

 

[Leucarum]

Not to beat a dead horse... But I think this evening I need to see what the Chalcedony Seal does with Prussia's Staatseisenbahn. If every railroad tile in your empire gets 3 extra culture/gold that could be pretty wild... Albeit lateish in terms of how the modern era is paced.

 

[Leyrann]

Catherine + Maya is... pretty good. (Sovereign Difficulty)

View attachment 721928

Can confirm. That's what I'm currently doing. Also, the free Hawaii unlock is insane.

Update: you can actually one-turn Wonders as the Maya, good grief…

I had heard it was possible but I never thought it would be so easy…

It gets worse.

The Unique Quarter still works in later Ages. And as techs only get more expensive... yeah, you're still one-turning Wonders in Exploration and presumably Modern.