Are any civs or leaders by themselves weak? Are some too good?

[Navelgazer]

Can confirm. That's what I'm currently doing. Also, the free Hawaii unlock is insane.

Yeah, Maya and Mississippians are good already, but unlocking Hawai'i is a huge low-key bonus for them (and probably one of the biggest things José Rizal has going for him, to be honest.) Hawai'i is fantastic, and nearly impossible to unlock during regular gameplay.

 

[Leucarum]

Yeah, Maya and Mississippians are good already, but unlocking Hawai'i is a huge low-key bonus for them (and probably one of the biggest things José Rizal has going for him, to be honest.) Hawai'i is fantastic, and nearly impossible to unlock during regular gameplay.

I prefer archipelago maps to Boxinents (the layouts are just more interesting to me, more chokepoints, more scope for naval engagements) but they do make unlocking Hawai'i pretty trivial...

 

[Wyvern_Parade]

In my opinion these are the strongest Antiquity Civs of the ones I have played (have yet to play Khmer, Egypt and Han China)

1. Maya. By FAR the strongest Antiquity Civ. Their UQ needs a nerf badly, and the rest of their kit is already strong.
2. Maurya. Strong unique cavalry unit and lots of happiness to help you expand beyond the city limit. Double pantheon is also great.
3. Rome. Strong culture bonuses, Legions, free settlements from leveling commanders, good UQ, and generally useful Traditions.
4. (Maybe controversial?) Greece. Extra influence is amazing, Hoplites are decent, and Logios give some nice bonuses in a variety of areas. They also get a rough start bias so they usually have access to a very high production start with an early brickyard opening. If you can keep some IPs alive Greece is even stronger, but I feel their bonuses are enough to not entirely rely on that strategy. The +25% commander XP Tradition is also surprisingly useful to get them leveled up quickly.

 

[Navelgazer]

Is it controversial at this point to rank Greece highly? Their traditions alone make them top-tier for me.

 

[Siptah]

Is it controversial at this point to rank Greece highly? Their traditions alone make them top-tier for me.

I think Greece is quite good. Similar to Rome, and stronger than Aksum or Egypt.
Top-tier? I don't think so. Maya is in a league of their own in Antiquity.

Honestly though, I'm still really impressed how many of the Antiquity and Exploration civs feel really good to play.

 

[ProMeTheus112]

Well, I don’t know if it’s just me, but I find unique improvements quite underwhelming, especially compared to unique buildings that offer much better bonuses.

I recently played as the Mississippians, and while they are a great civ for an economic victory, their unique infrastructure feels pretty negligible. The same goes for the Mughals and their Stepwell.

Independent People improvements haven’t been very appealing either.

I feel like tiles now have much more value than in any previous version of Civ, so improvements really need to be worth the “cost” of using up a tile.

My opinion on unique improvement, is I wouldn't like them to be too good because then you would want to simply spam them over every rural tile you can which also overwrites the visual of the tile that it is built on. My initial feeling with unique improvement is that it was too strong but now I feel that's not necessarily the case and they are in a nice spot. I think they are like other things in the game, sometimes you want to use them a little, sometimes a lot, sometimes not at all, and that's a good thing.

 

[Taefin]

My opinion on unique improvement, is I wouldn't like them to be too good because then you would want to simply spam them over every rural tile you can which also overwrites the visual of the tile that it is built on. My initial feeling with unique improvement is that it was too strong but now I feel that's not necessarily the case and they are in a nice spot. I think they are like other things in the game, sometimes you want to use them a little, sometimes a lot, sometimes not at all, and that's a good thing.

I am liking unique improvements (I’ll use UI for that here) and am entering modern with my first game as Xerxes A. Where before I would have added mostly specialists to cities, this game I continued adding +4 production rural tiles and putting +6-8g/+2c UI on every one (between Persian Mongolia, IP UIs hill forts and company posts). I’m entering modern as Mughal with 1200g/turn and it has definitely felt like a different game, albeit I’m behind on science.

Background to ask: does anyone know what Mughal and Russia UI are doing in modern? Those were the two Civs I unlocked and haven’t played before, so I picked Mughal, and both UI give +2 food to adjacent farms (plus+2 culture I think). I don’t have many places I’d want to add them to my empire, since farms are often not located well for this, and at this point in the game it feels a little late to invest in food, especially if I need to first grow towns to add UI, when I should be sending that food to cities from turn 1. I was surprised that two modern civs had such a similar UI.

Maybe it’s just that I already put good UI everywhere, and I could see this as a way to speed up new settlements used to grab factory resources. But ROI on a little extra food in the last 60-70 turns feels low, similar to buying stock exchanges with gold (I spend more gold than they will give back by the end of the game).

 

[Leucarum]

Hmm... Doing a game based on as many spammable unique improvements as possible (Mississippi > Hawai'i > Japan as my unlocks are bugged and that was my only modern option) with the chalcedony seal to boost them further got me my fastest win yet... I'm sure people have done a faster modern win than Turn 34 but it was lightning fast by my standards...

 

[ProMeTheus112]

Hmm... Doing a game based on as many spammable unique improvements as possible (Mississippi > Hawai'i > Japan as my unlocks are bugged and that was my only modern option) with the chalcedony seal to boost them further got me my fastest win yet... I'm sure people have done a faster modern win than Turn 34 but it was lightning fast by my standards...

Yeah when the situation accomodates it I imagine it could be a bit OP at times because these unique improvements have no maintenance cost notably (+ overwite rural tile while keeping all the yields).

 

[Leucarum]

Yeah when the situation accomodates it I imagine it could be a bit OP at times because these unique improvements have no maintenance cost notably (+ overwite rural tile while keeping all the yields).

You also don't get the usual drop in yields on age transition becsuse they're ageless...

 

[civfanatic4sure]

Inca is being overlooked — they need just one mountain in a city to plop Machu Pikchu on and then build all your districts around it and get gamebreaking yields — no other civ can do this because it’s unlocked so late in the age while Inca gets it almost immediately.

 

[Navelgazer]

Inca is being overlooked — they need just one mountain in a city to plop Machu Pikchu on and then build all your districts around it and get gamebreaking yields — no other civ can do this because it’s unlocked so late in the age while Inca gets it almost immediately.

I think I agree. I've only played one game with them so far (and using Pachacuti to boot) so I wasn't sure how much was luck, but they felt very strong to me. Qusqo (where I built Machu Pikchu) is probably the greatest city I've built in any of my games so far (though my recent Maya game where I had an Uwaybil K'uh completely surrounded by wonders from Antiquity onwards is up there.)

I think the thing holding Inca back in people's minds is that they're situational based on terrain, but they start in the Exploration Age, when you've already got your homeland cities down and can't super afford to be basing the islands you're scrambling for on anything much more than whether they have treasure fleet resources on them. But if you set yourself up for them (or if you play as Pachacuti and get the start bias you need in Antiquity anyway, in addition to the complimentary bonuses), they're great.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

My one qualm with the Inca is that their unique improvement has not one but *two* stringent requirements. In addition to already taking away a potential mountainside urban district (which both Machu Pichu and Pachacuti incline you towards), it has to be on rough terrain.

On my Inca play-through, I only managed to find one spot for a Terrace Farm.

 

[Menocchio]

My one qualm with the Inca is that their unique improvement has not one but *two* stringent requirements. In addition to already taking away a potential mountainside urban district (which both Machu Pichu and Pachacuti incline you towards), it has to be on rough terrain.

On my Inca play-through, I only managed to find one spot for a Terrace Farm.

And to think, it was just any old hills in VI! It feels like the poor Incans have inherited the sad fate of the Dutch with their polders.

 

[Seek]

You also don't get the usual drop in yields on age transition becsuse they're ageless...

Unfortunately they do lose their adjacency bonuses like buildings, though.

 

[Leucarum]

Unfortunately they do lose their adjacency bonuses like buildings, though.

True. Though how many UIs have buildimg adjacencies? Aren't most of them resources and wonders?

 

[Taefin]

My one qualm with the Inca is that their unique improvement has not one but *two* stringent requirements. In addition to already taking away a potential mountainside urban district (which both Machu Pichu and Pachacuti incline you towards), it has to be on rough terrain.

On my Inca play-through, I only managed to find one spot for a Terrace Farm.

This happed in my Pachacuti game! So I picked…I don’t remember, I guess I was still the Inca in my heart.

 

[local_hero]

I'm actually fond of Russia, but I have just played a few games of Sovereign and mostly Viceroy. I like their UI and funneling so much food from towns to cities. But as to the thread topic, yeah maybe a bit weak in comparison with the others.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

I'm not sure how you're supposed to play the Inca.

Are you meant to settle Towns next to mountains and fill them up with Terrace Farms to feed your Cities? That's what their Civ ability might suggest.

But at the same time, some Traditions give you bonuses for Cities being adjacent to or working mountains. Pachacuti wants to place his Districts next to mountains and load them up with Specialists, not work Rural tiles. Machu Pichu inclines you to do the same.

So what are you supposed to do? The bonuses force you to spread a scarce resource thin.

If you're going to hinge one third of your game on a terrain-based Civ, you better be able to make the most of that terrain! Being at cross-purposes with yourself on a Civ that should be mindless fun just sucks

I can't complain too much, though. Their unique units are pretty cool and that Tradition that turns Gold into Food is right up my alley.

 

[Seek]

True. Though how many UIs have buildimg adjacencies? Aren't most of them resources and wonders?

I meant they lose their adjacencies in the same way that buildings do. (I was scratching my head for a minute trying to figure out what you were getting at - turns out it was just my poor communication skills! )

I also have found that UI bonuses that aren't adjacency based (such as the bonus gold on the Company Post when settlement has a resource assigned) will disappear at age transition ..