Are the Pyramids too good?

[Frostyboy]

I think the Pyramids are in a special position in the game since they only cost 400 and give a granary to every city on the continent AND never expires.

On a pangea map this is totally awsome - too good. I think at least it should expire sometime. The temple of Artemis costs 600 and also provide a 60 shield building, and that expires.

What do you think

 

[YNCS]

The Pyramids are close to being an exploit. Every new city gets an immediate grainary, saving many production turns right when the city is least productive.

In the RaR mod, the Wonder that gives instant grainaries (Stonehenge) expires in the Industrial Age.

 

[mastertyguy]

I think Pyramids are OK, because, in higher levels, youb rarely get it, so it adds to the chalenge. anyway, they are less powerful tha they were in civ2 (especially archipelago) and, even if I don't know what they were in civ1, they are less powerful (see the manual). They need change, but not dramatically

 

[Frostyboy]

In Civ1 they gave access to ALL goverements - which also were a bit too far fetched.
Why couldn't they made the Pyramids something closer to they historical purpose.
They could give culture to all cities or something.

 

[mastertyguy]

ALL goernement !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh ****!!!! (sorry) When can you have it? I think in civ2 this is the equivalent of statue of liberty, is it?

 

[Frostyboy]

Thats right. Pyramids were accebile form the beginning and the cost I think was 200. I usually buildt them and swithed to democracy immediatly (no corruption). And there was no transition of anarchy either. Hmmm too good...

 

[Pentium]

400 shields are a lot in that age. Unless you get a leader that early, it's quite hard to get it.

 

[garyg]

The only time I get them is if I get a GSL early on. Otherwise I'm too busy cranking out settlers, workers and units to dedicate my most productive city that early in the game.

 

[Graadiapolistan]

I wish when the temple of Artemis expired it didn't destroy evry temple it created

 

[Virote_Considon]

I voted Yes, it needs some alterations. But I don't think it's too good. I think the Great Granary from the Indus Vally should have that effect, and The Pyramids something more religion-baced.

I rate grannaries as usless. Quicker growth= Higher Corruption. If you have the Agricultural trait, you don't need them, anyway.

 

[thetrooper]

Granaries useless?!? Please explain...

 

[Rambuchan]

The Pyramids are the nuts of all the wonders. They should expire sometime in the industrial age.

 

[Rik Meleet]

(..)I rate grannaries as usless. Quicker growth= Higher Corruption. If you have the Agricultural trait, you don't need them, anyway.

If you rate granaries as useless; there must be something not right with your games. Perhaps you build too few settlers or workers ? Or connect too few luxuries ? Or play on a very small or tiny map (ok, not a "not right" thing) ?

What level do you play on ?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Pyramids is the most powerfull wonder in the game.

You don't get to build it however unless you play a difficulty below your skill or you make huge effords and sacrifice a lot of other things to get it.

That balances the wonder pretty well.
By making a nice strategic goal for capture it adds another aspect to the game. With the downside being the luck factor of what AI and where it will be.

The problem is when it can be rushed with a leader, in that situation it is overpowered.
SGL's are the thing that is wrong in this game.

 

[Pentium]

If it expired in Industrial, it wouldn'd help much. Granaries are most important in early age.
In vanilla, you need a MGL to rush it. So you can get it if you play very militaristic.

 

[InFlux5]

SGL's are the thing that is wrong in this game.

SGLs are just one example of the many lottery-type bonuses in the game. If you think SGLs are wrong, do you think free cities for Expansionist civs is wrong? They are both things that rarely happen, but are powerful when they do.

I focus on science a lot of the time in my games, and I think the chance of an SGL is a nice reward. I rarely get one in the ancient age. And maximizing your chances of getting one takes effort and planning over many, many turns (and actually begins with your choice of civ.) Often times I play Byzantines just in the hopes of getting an early SGL. And do you know how often it happens? Hardly ever.

Maybe that just makes me a moron, but it's worth the risk to me. When I take Byzantines and go the Philosophy gambit, and a SGL pops up, it's a great feeling and I know that I worked for it. Delaying Iron, Horseman, and other basic techs to focus on advanced techs is a sacrifice.

Rushing the Pyramids may be a bit overpowered, but how often are you in a position to do that? Usually, as has been said, it's a huge investment of shields and time.

Risks should be rewarded, and that's all the Pyramids are.

 

[Theoden]

@InFlux5
I didn't feel I worked hard for it or took any chances when I once got an SGL for my second tech, the Wheel. I rushed the pyramids in 2550BC, but then I abandoned the game as it would be far too easy from this point.

If you build the pyramids from scratch though, I don't think they are too overpowered. In any game I would rather have 13 settlers (390 shields) than the pyramids (400 shields).

 

[Eetu Pellonpää]

Hmm. At least in scenario I would change Pyramids' effect as corruption lowering great wonder, with possibly monarcy as required govt and make it's effect expire at some time.

 

[Frostyboy]

I my modded version, it takes Integrated defence and 4000 shields to build them
(instead of deleting them totally, I just made them unaccesable for all civs)

They are simply too good. Granaries are Great for pop-rush play, like Feudalism.

 

[Rambuchan]

If it expired in Industrial, it wouldn'd help much. Granaries are most important in early age.

This is part of the point I am making. When you go on an industrial or post-industrial age rampage owning the Pyramids compounds your/the rampaging AI's power too much. By getting granaries in all the newly captured cities as well means that population soars immeasurably, it's ridiculous with an Agri civ.

SGLs are cool but rushing wonders like the Pyr with them again is ridiculous. I played a Monarch level game (my usual level) which felt like an Emperor or above against the Sumerians and they almost completely walked away with the game. How? They must have got a few SGLs cos they built every freakin' wonder there was worth building. Nearly all the F7 screen was powder blue. This totally threw the game in their favour and my only saving grace was that I had selected Regicide. Without this get out clause they would have crushed me and that very rarely happens on Monarch for me. Why did this happen? Because of the SGLs.