Are there any civs in need of revamping?

Psychotronics

Tribune of the Plebs
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In Civ V, France was extensively changed in one os the expansions. After playing for a while, are there any civs you feel could use a touch up?
I, for one, think Japan's bonus combat on coast tiles could be changed. Never used, don't think I ever will.
 
I've played as 6 different civs so far, they were all great except Norway. The fact that berserkers have to be built from scratch really slows down the pillaging economy too much and forces you to wage war in the later eras where you will be instantly branded a warmonger by all. I would suggest a simple fix - make the berskerker replace the swordsman so you can upgrade to it.
 
Norway and Spain I think could be buffed a bit. Spain needs some sort of buff that makes it easier for them to found a religion, and the mission needs to be better. Their UA should probably scale by era too. Norway still needs, well, they need costal warfare to be boosted, or something. Their ability is too situational, the stave church comes too late to be useful, and the beserker is hard to mass in time for an invasion. Its too easy to play a game without using their abilities.

The rest of the civs seem pretty solid. I used Japan's costal buffs a lot in my most recent game, a deity domination win where I beelined frigates, then subs, then the venetian arsenal, then battleships, then missile cruisers, managing to capture 6/7 capitals with a minimal ground army (literally got submarines before crossbows). Considering Kongo was in the information era by the time I reached frigates (I had 27 beakers per turn at that point and they had 200, it was laughable), I'm pretty sure that +5 shallow water bonus was incredibly helpful and stopped my forces from getting routed by the enemy cities.
 
I hate what the Civ V designers did to France, by the way. They were a really fun ICS Civ pre-BNW :(

Anyway, I think almost every unique improvement needs a buff. Right now unique districts are incredible, unique buildings are OK, and unique improvements are just not worth using. Stuff like the Sphinx, Chateau, and Mission need a lot of help.

I also think unique districts could use a little bit of toning down. I might keep the half price, but make it so that they still took up a district slot, as normal. This would have the effect of making Germany's UA much more special (while simultaneously nerfing Germany). I think it's kind of poor design that right now, the best thing about every unique district is not what's actually unique about it, but just the fact that it is a unique district. I've played two games as England and I can't remember what special bonuses the Royal Navy Dockyard gets over the normal Harbor. They're totally irrelevant. All I care about it is that it's a cheap trade route that doesn't take a district slot.

Norway is the only Civ that strikes me as grossly underpowered. A Civ designed around coastal raiding is just not really viable, and it doesn't help that the Berserker is a hilariously underpowered UU (seriously, compare it a Knight). It also doesn't help that pillaging is much less useful than I think the developers intended. That Civ needs a serious rethink.

I agree that giving Spain a bonus towards founding a religion wouldn't be a bad idea, either.
 
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I disagree that Norway is too situational or you can't build a civ around coastal raiding. Well maybe not on Pangea, but that's fine. Not every civ has to be balanced for all maps.

Longships are really good. They make the early game very fun...I build a fleet of them and sail all around the world terrorizing every civ into giving me gold for peace deals, while stealing their workers and popping goody huts etc. That part is really great TBH...very fun.

But after that it's hard to keep it going. I would like to transition into a 2nd wave of havoc with berserkers. But they cost a lot of cogs for your typical production at that time. And to boot, they die pretty easily with that defense penalty. It's tough to make that investment, knowing that you're going to face heavy losses while at the same time building up a lot of warmonger hate.
 
I disagree that Norway is too situational or you can't build a civ around coastal raiding. Well maybe not on Pangea, but that's fine. Not every civ has to be balanced for all maps.

Longships are really good. They make the early game very fun...I build a fleet of them and sail all around the world terrorizing every civ into giving me gold for peace deals, while stealing their workers and popping goody huts etc. That part is really great TBH...very fun.

But after that it's hard to keep it going. I would like to transition into a 2nd wave of havoc with berserkers. But they cost a lot of cogs for your typical production at that time. And to boot, they die pretty easily with that defense penalty. It's tough to make that investment, knowing that you're going to face heavy losses while at the same time building up a lot of warmonger hate.

I agree that it's fun and flavorful to sail around pillaging with Longships, but it's really not very effective at all. Just conquering other Civs the conventional way works much, much better. Maybe if Norway got double pillaging yields?

And yeah, Berserkers are just bad. Compare them to a Knight; they're at the same level of the tech tree (though Berserkers are unlocked by a dead-end tech while Knights are not.) They cost the same. Berserkers have 47 strength in attack, 33 on defense. Knights have 48 both ways. Berserkers move at speed 4 under special conditions... Knights move at speed 4 all the time. Plus Knights get a much better production card (100% as opposed to 50%). I know Knights cost Iron and Berserkers don't, but yeesh. Really lame UU.
 
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I've played almost all of them once each by now (17/20), and first of all I'd like to say that in general, the unique tile improvements are pretty garbage. This includes the French Château, the Egyptian Sphinx, the Sumerian Ziggurat, the Spanish Mission, the Scythian Kurgan (though I guess you can use this to get a faster pantheon, but beyond that it's meh), and to a certain extent the Great Wall of China which currently is only worthwhile for the defensive bonuses rather than the tile yields. They don't seem to synergize very well with the unstacked cities mechanic because you have much less available tiles per city to work now since you have to make room for districts (and maybe wonders). Taking that into account and also discounting resource tiles where you obviously only have one improvement to choose from (unless you harvest it), you'll want pretty much all the remaining tiles for farms, lumber mills and mines. There is almost no situation where I find room for any of the Ziggurats, Missions etc since they're not that good to begin with. The only times I find them worthwhile is if you get some isolated flatland tiles where you can't get any worthwhile adjacency bonuses from a farm, but problem is the unique improvements generally also have specific adjacency bonuses to take advantage of which might be hard to do in that case. However, if you find a natural wonder with tile adjacency bonuses on terrain types where you can't build farms (tundra/desert) then placing them there can be nice, same with desert flatland tiles in a Petra city. But otherwise... not so much. The only exception to this that I've found is India's Stepwell, which actually has decent yields but more importantly provides double housing compared to farms, which is pretty important as it effectively adds growth in a more efficient way than just raw food. But the others could all use some work if you ask me


Other than that, if we go into the civs themselves, then first of all you have to accept that some of them have more generic bonuses whereas others are aimed towards specific maps or victory conditions. However, that's just part of game diversity, and every civ should probably be judged under the circumstances where they were originally intended to be played. So with that being said, here are some things I would like to have changed:

France - Catherine's Flying Squadron
This ability is almost completely useless. I mean fair enough the early spy is fine, but the diplomatic visibility is pretty much meaningless. The entire gossip system is pretty uninteresting as it is, so getting to see more of that isn't particularly helpful. Sure, getting to see the other civs' hidden agendas faster is nice, but that's such a minor boost that I really couldn't care less. Not to mention this is completely irrelevant in multiplayer

Germany - Holy Roman Emperor
The extra military policy is solid, but seriously the +7 combat strength vs city states is super unnecessary. Being encouraged to attack city states will for one make every other civ on the map hate you more than ever, but also city states are so weak to begin with that this boost is not going to make a difference if you've actually decided to attack one. I'd rather have this changed to something else completely

Sumeria - War Carts
Yeah you should probably nerf these a bit, being able to insta-kill your neighbour just by building 3-4 War Carts is a bit silly

Kongo - Religious Convert
While I think this ability sounded really cool in theory, in practice it's pretty dumb. For one it's completely out of your control as for whether someone spreads their religion to you or not, but even if they do it's not particularly helpful. For one, since you can't build Holy Sites, that also means you can never ever build whatever worship building the religion you're getting has, and you can also never get any decent faith generation rolling which renders a lot of beliefs fairly useless since they're faith-dependent. I think you should just give Kongo the ability to build Holy Sites like any other civ, but instead only prevent them from gaining Great Prophets. That way they could at least spread around a religion within their own territory once they've gotten ahold of someone else's, and more importantly they could actually make use of its beliefs properly. Granted, this would turn Kongo into a very powerful civ since their other bonuses are already very strong but that's a different matter (and certainly not the strongest civ in the game regardless)

Russia - Lavra
This district feels incredibly untested to me. In theory it's the most overpowered district in the game, but in practice it's also impossible to make it live up to its own potential. The problem with the Lavra is that it generates waaaaaayyyyyyy too many great writer/artist/musician points. Like absurdly so. If you focus on building Lavras frequently (which really, you should), then you'll get so many great persons which want to create great works, but it's completely impossible to keep up with having enough great work slots for them. As a result you can literally have 5+ writers just sitting around unemployed, even with an amphitheater in every city and building every wonder in the game which gives extra slots. It's ridiculous. You either need to give Lavras the ability to hold great works on their own (at least works of writing and music), give us more buildings that can hold great works, nerf the great person point yields of the Lavra (should probably do that regardless if you ask me), or let writers/artists/musicians do something else other than just create great works (which I would also love to see just for making the game more diverse and interesting if nothing else)

Scythia - People of the Steppe/Killer of Cyrus
I'm not sure what there is to say here other than that at the moment Scythia is by far the most overpowered civilization in the game, and even one of these two abilities would be enough to give them that award, but both of them combined is utterly absurd. Discounting the current unit disband exploit (which should be patched since it's obviously unintended), Scythia is still far too strong in terms of military. I'm not sure exactly what the best course of action is, but I think the People of the Steppe ability should just be changed to something else altogether. The double horse production is just too silly. Killer of Cyrus on its own alongside some other, more reasonable bonus should be okay though


I'm sure I missed something but off the top of my head, something like that. I also think Norway should be buffed somehow as they feel more like a roleplay civ as of right now, but I'm not sure exactly how yet
 
I've played as 6 different civs so far, they were all great except Norway. The fact that berserkers have to be built from scratch really slows down the pillaging economy too much and forces you to wage war in the later eras where you will be instantly branded a warmonger by all. I would suggest a simple fix - make the berskerker replace the swordsman so you can upgrade to it.

Or expand the Civ's ability to pillage without being in war. That will allow the play style to be viable without being denounced by everyone. I played a game as Norway while trying to roleplay them correctly, and you are correct, it seemed like I was getting the beserkers to late in the game for them to be really useful and by then other civs had basically all branded me as a warmonger.
 
Kongo - Religious Convert
While I think this ability sounded really cool in theory, in practice it's pretty dumb. For one it's completely out of your control as for whether someone spreads their religion to you or not, but even if they do it's not particularly helpful. For one, since you can't build Holy Sites, that also means you can never ever build whatever worship building the religion you're getting has, and you can also never get any decent faith generation rolling which renders a lot of beliefs fairly useless since they're faith-dependent. I think you should just give Kongo the ability to build Holy Sites like any other civ, but instead only prevent them from gaining Great Prophets. That way they could at least spread around a religion within their own territory once they've gotten ahold of someone else's, and more importantly they could actually make use of its beliefs properly. Granted, this would turn Kongo into a very powerful civ since their other bonuses are already very strong but that's a different matter (and certainly not the strongest civ in the game regardless)

This is a great point about the Kongo Leader UA. It really just doesn't work well. You'll get entirely useless bonuses most of the time and there's nothing you can do about it.

Peter has another bad leader UA. Maybe it could be fixed by a) increasing the bonus to 1 science/culture for every 1 or 2 techs, not 3 and b) nerfing internal trade routes, which should happen anyway. That would make external trade routes attractive as Russia.
 
America?

UU come way too late and are both fairly meh.

Film studio and National Park buff both come too late to make a difference.

Never really noticed the double government buff.

How about extra movement + attack if in a joint war?

Can't see beyond a Minuteman for UU , maybe in between scout and ranger unit? Cheap, musket armed recon unit? Those brave souls made America. (+10 bonus vs Redcoats!)

How about a different government (Capitalism) just for them? Extra commerce slot or something. Available earlier than tier 3 govs?
 
This is a great point about the Kongo Leader UA. It really just doesn't work well. You'll get entirely useless bonuses most of the time and there's nothing you can do about it.

Peter has another bad leader UA. Maybe it could be fixed by a) increasing the bonus to 1 science/culture for every 1 or 2 techs, not 3 and b) nerfing internal trade routes, which should happen anyway. That would make external trade routes attractive as Russia.
It's good on Deity but otherwise it's pretty crap yeah. The ability itself isn't bad, it just needs higher yields I'd say. 1:1 instead of 1:3 sounds more reasonable
 
I agree that it's fun and flavorful to sail around pillaging with Longships, but it's really not very effective at all. Just conquering other Civs the conventional way works much, much better.
They aren't intended to be conquerors. But for raiding on an islands map, it can be very effective at obtaining gold. Of course if your opponent is building all land troops and no boats, you won't really be able to coerce them into paying you for peace. But why would you play vikings on a land map? On water maps it does work very well because the AI does build ships for you to destroy, thereby ensuring a good peace deal. And, you can steal their workers and hurt their economy to boot. To me that all comes together very nicely. It's just...by the medieval period (when vikings should be at their peak) they aren't good enough anymore.
 
P-51 Mustang not requiring Aluminum has saved my butt a few times, when I unlocked Advanced Flight and the game basically cheated me out of any Aluminum I could get on my own. It also has slightly more range than a regular Fighter. But yeah air units show up so late in the game :(

I have to say, out of all the civs I've played with so far, Norway has been the most difficult to play well with. Super water powers that show up early, but very little meaningful bonuses for land fighting. Being able to do coastal raids with melee naval units and a slightly shinier Galley isn't enough. My changes to Party Hard Rod would be:

1. In addition to doing coastal raids with melee naval units, reduce war weariness by 25%.
2. Longboat redesigned as a unique Sea Raider-type unit with 2 attack range that doesn't replace the Galley. Upgrades to Privateer. Moving this version of Longboat up to Shipbuilding is fine. (I think all Sea Raiders intrinsically have camouflage and can do coastal raids.)
 
Russia - Lavra
This district feels incredibly untested to me. In theory it's the most overpowered district in the game, but in practice it's also impossible to make it live up to its own potential. The problem with the Lavra is that it generates waaaaaayyyyyyy too many great writer/artist/musician points. Like absurdly so. If you focus on building Lavras frequently (which really, you should), then you'll get so many great persons which want to create great works, but it's completely impossible to keep up with having enough great work slots for them. As a result you can literally have 5+ writers just sitting around unemployed, even with an amphitheater in every city and building every wonder in the game which gives extra slots. It's ridiculous. You either need to give Lavras the ability to hold great works on their own (at least works of writing and music), give us more buildings that can hold great works, nerf the great person point yields of the Lavra (should probably do that regardless if you ask me), or let writers/artists/musicians do something else other than just create great works (which I would also love to see just for making the game more diverse and interesting if nothing else)
Yes, this bugs me to. Too many great people just sitting there for hundreds of turns. At least give them some combat abilities so we can go barbarian hunting with them.
 
Yes, this bugs me to. Too many great people just sitting there for hundreds of turns. At least give them some combat abilities so we can go barbarian hunting with them.

Sell them. I believe they net you 1000 gold.
 
I think, instead of improving some civs because their flavor seems weak, we should nerf some civs. Germany needs nerf bat hard, it's just not fun to play because it's so strong. They need, like, UA of an extra district replaced with something weak and peripheral, and a terrain restriction on hansa, like Greece has with acropolis on hills. Japan could be toned down a notch, swapping the combat modifier of divine wind to something defensive against naval attack. Also Congo, but I dunno what to do with it.

Anyway, bringing the top ones down to a high middle level is what I'd suggest for a "revamp", not making some stronger so they're all unfun.
 
I think, instead of improving some civs because their flavor seems weak, we should nerf some civs. Germany needs nerf bat hard, it's just not fun to play because it's so strong. They need, like, UA of an extra district replaced with something weak and peripheral, and a terrain restriction on hansa, like Greece has with acropolis on hills. Japan could be toned down a notch, swapping the combat modifier of divine wind to something defensive against naval attack. Also Congo, but I dunno what to do with it.

Anyway, bringing the top ones down to a high middle level is what I'd suggest for a "revamp", not making some stronger so they're all unfun.

My view is exactly opposite. I think each civ should be overpowered in their own way, so they are asymmetrical. I'd buff weak ones and avoid nerfing strong ones.
Reason: your idea leads to "meh" civ with bonuses that don't change gameplay enough to be interesting. This idea instead leads to much more interesting civs.
 
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