Are you Politically Correct?

[Narz]

Contexts where it's needed as a contrastive? What you're basically saying is you don't know any trans people, and have never paid attention to or discussed trans issues with anyone familiar with them. Which, okay? Good for you?

You're an idiot.

Moderator Action: This is flaming. Stop it. --LM
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

I asked you a simple question.

Worked w a transgendered person for about six months and was friends w another one back in NJ and helped her move. A chick I was seeing has a TG roommate (granted we didnt interact too much)

Never heard the word cis.

Not that I need cred to appease someone who gets defensive over a question about their conversations on the subject being discussed.

This is the stupid **** that alienates people. Someone is curious? Asking questions? They must not get it, you must be ignorant and/or not know or care about people as much as me. Stfu w your nonsense assumptions.

I treat people cool, all the same, I don't bring stuff up, the one trans friend seemed to not want anyone to recognize or comment on the fact that she was clearly trans so I didn't, we just talked about other things, it's not hard as gender is not something I discuss at all anyway. Same as I rarely discuss race w black friends.

The people most keyed in the subject seem to be middle class whities on the internet. Not sure why. Trying to show they care? You don't show you care w your opinions. I have the opinion that starving kids shouldn't go hungry but unless I'm gonna adopt one why say this?

 

[Arwon]

Yeah terms like cis-gendered and cis-woman get used in most discussions I've read or taken part in regarding trans and intersex athletes. It's literally embedded in Australian Football League policy on trans participation, for instance (and used in an unremarkable way in that linked article by the Australian national broadcaster).

I'm honestly a little bit shocked you wouldn't have come across it, it's really pretty common vocabulary when you need to compare or contrast trans and cis experiences and characteristics.

 

[Narz]

I said IRL

 

[Arwon]

Pretty sure footy is real

 

[Synobun]

Pretty sure footy is real

New Zealand isn't real, why not include Australia in that too?

 

[adcarrymaokai]

The world has become too politically correct. I can't slap a girl on her nice butt at work because nowadays snowflakes call it "sexual harassment". I can't say that gays are going to burn in hell forever because the totalitarian left has labeled it "homophobia". It's really hard to adapt to the ever-evolving society, but it's definitely not my fault everyone gets offended so easily nowadays.

But you know what's the worst? Remembering people's genders. Like, I can remember people's first names, their last names, nicknames, their family members, how I met them and what I like about them. I can even remember their dogs' names. But gender? Nope, that's taking it too far.

 

[Akka]

Of course, this statement is a catch 22. The only people who NEVER pass moral judgements on others are those who have no morals and do not pretend to have morals - such as sociopaths, psychopaths, nihilists, unrestrained hedonists, and Frankfurt-school deconstructionists, for instance.

The problem lies in the "passing moral judgement because someone disagree with me" instead of "passing moral judgement because it violates a consistent principle". Emphasis on "consistent".

 

[Akka]

So shaming is now the answer. Good for you.

Well, that was the point I was making with the "you either agree with me or you're a jerk". Guess I was spot-on.

I also find quite funny how the "it doesn't matter if it's fact, it can be insulting" and "if someone find it offensive, it is and basic civility would dictate that you respect the wishes of people" magically turned into "facts, and logic and using the words as their definition means" when the situation was turned around. Suddenly the arguments they fought against become argument they use

Oh well, my very first post in this thread was :

Are they really deserving of respect if they throw "bigot" at everyone who has an opinion not like theirs ?
I can't really respect hypocrites.

And these past pages really drive the point home. I've always butted head with this crowd on these forum, and my main problem has always been the hypocrisy. It's hold up for years, no surprise it hasn't changed.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Rah, you're losing a key assertion, maybe? Remember that getting somebody's pronoun wrong is asserted to be violence. Violence does not need to be intentional. Intent is aggravating, but not definitional. So if you treat it as a simple call for equality, of giving and of earning respect and belief in each other, then that is to put your old ass white male notions of politeness on even ground as violence, an intensely privileged position . So it approximately seems to go. How respect generates from there, I don't know. The throne seems too high.

My friend why do you act like this?

Deadnaming and misgendering have demonstrable negative effects on transpeople; contributing to suicide and self harm rates, but you want to drag your feet and kvetch because a group of people you previously had no expectation of ever respecting are now being treated in a manner that doesn't add to their persecution and respects their personal wishes, dignity and humanity.

You and @rah aren't the victims here so why do you drag your feet over such a simple issue? If using the names and pronouns that transpeople desire is beneficial to them what exactly are you losing? What cost are you paying? Don't you agree that we should do what we can as a society to ameliorate the pain of a historically socially disenfranchised group?

Even a cursory glance at trans subreddit's, forums and communities show that this is an issue for them. Please explain to me if it isn't as big an issue as the trans community considers it to be, why is it a consistant issue that pops up when they discuss the negative treatment they receive at the hands of cis people, intentionally or otherwise?

If you're ignorant of it that's okay and nothing to be ashamed of, I'm ignorant of many other groups issues but don't act like this is some sort of imposition when the consequences of deadnaming and misgendering can result in people committing self harm or worse; suicide.

 

[Hygro]

If I was 5'11" and 3/4 I would have no issue saying I was 6'. Even if someone measures you, I doubt you'd be called out on it.

I'm just over 6'. I often told people I was 5'11"

 

[Gorbles]

And if you go way back to when this started, I said I wouldn't be offended but that doesn't mean if I prefer it not to be used that it wouldn't be rude to continue to use in referencing me. Respect given is respect earned.

Cool, so you are of the belief that someone has to give deference to you on some made-up encounter in order to respect who they are as a (real) marginalised person. I find it odd, though, as you say you wouldn't be offended, you hadn't heard of the term "cis" until last night . . . and within those hours you had a) already decided it was something you didn't want to be called and b) compared it to other known slurs. To me that seems that regardless of when you first heard it, you'd already made your mind up about it (this is an assumption, though).

In any event, I recommend reading up on power dynamics - in good faith - I think this is a worldview / knowledge situation that you may find interesting. There seems to be a lot of confusion around how power structures work and are reinforced, and like Cloud_Strife said above, it's completely okay to be ignorant or otherwise unaware of something.

 

[Zardnaar]

Damn PC brigade. In the good old days not only was it legal to shoot Germans the government would pay you to do it.

And they covered your travel expenses. Egypt, Turkey, Mesopotamia, France, Libya, Tunisia, Italy, Croatia.

You didn't need to take it out on the nearest school or Mosque, the Germans were practically lining up. Get depressed shoot a German.

Damn liberals ruining the world.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

In the good old days people of color (including Italians) were lynched, women were literal chattel and LGBT people were openly persecuted by both the state and public, not to mention that religious minorities such as Jews were also subject to various forms of discrimination.

I guess we have political correctness to thank for ameliorating some of that.

 

[AmazonQueen]

In the good old days people of color (including Italians) were lynched, women were literal chattel and LGBT people were openly persecuted by both the state and public, not to mention that religious minorities such as Jews were also subject to various forms of discrimination.

I guess we have political correctness to thank for ameliorating some of that.

Just about every poster here is to some degree pc. Words that were acceptable 30-40 years ago aren't now because of campaigns against them.
Theres no pc police, no central committee deciding what language is and isn't acceptable. Its a process, one that began long before the phrase political correctness was ever heard of.
Sometimes people get it wrong. When they do those changes to language won't win acceptance but that doesn't make the whole process invalid.

 

[AdamCrock]

The world has become too politically correct. I can't slap a girl on her nice butt at work because nowadays snowflakes call it "sexual harassment". I can't say that gays are going to burn in hell forever because the totalitarian left has labeled it "homophobia". It's really hard to adapt to the ever-evolving society, but it's definitely not my fault everyone gets offended so easily nowadays.

But you know what's the worst? Remembering people's genders. Like, I can remember people's first names, their last names, nicknames, their family members, how I met them and what I like about them. I can even remember their dogs' names. But gender? Nope, that's taking it too far.

/\ You should get some points for honesty Nowadays You can't even describe people honestly and correctly . i.e the old , the fat and the ugly has become "80 years old young, above average weight, visually impaired people"

 

[red_elk]

The people most keyed in the subject seem to be middle class whities on the internet. Not sure why. Trying to show they care?

Trying to show they are morally superior to other middle class whities.

I find it odd, though, as you say you wouldn't be offended, you hadn't heard of the term "cis" until last night . . . and within those hours you had a) already decided it was something you didn't want to be called and b) compared it to other known slurs.

He didn't compare it to known slurs. He asked whether the right not to be addressed with words you don't like is a privilege reserved for minorities. Or it's a common courtesy.

 

[Farm Boy]

My friend why do you act like this?

Deadnaming and misgendering have demonstrable negative effects on transpeople; contributing to suicide and self harm rates, but you want to drag your feet and kvetch because a group of people you previously had no expectation of ever respecting are now being treated in a manner that doesn't add to their persecution and respects their personal wishes, dignity and humanity.

You and @rah aren't the victims here so why do you drag your feet over such a simple issue? If using the names and pronouns that transpeople desire is beneficial to them what exactly are you losing? What cost are you paying? Don't you agree that we should do what we can as a society to ameliorate the pain of a historically socially disenfranchised group?

Even a cursory glance at trans subreddit's, forums and communities show that this is an issue for them. Please explain to me if it isn't as big an issue as the trans community considers it to be, why is it a consistant issue that pops up when they discuss the negative treatment they receive at the hands of cis people, intentionally or otherwise?

If you're ignorant of it that's okay and nothing to be ashamed of, I'm ignorant of many other groups issues but don't act like this is some sort of imposition when the consequences of deadnaming and misgendering can result in people committing self harm or worse; suicide.

Act like what, Militia? I claimed the assertion was that it was violence. Is that incorrect? Seeing as neither of us has any problem with addressing people the way they want to be addressed and indicate that we <gasp> believe you when you say it's important. Should I have used a more apocalyptic term than violence? It was the one you used, and I reiterated it. You, yourself, are frequently dismissive of respect and manners. Is that also incorrect? Or is it one of those things where it's incorrect when I say it? Legit questions. Like I said, I have problems parsing 100% when it seems presumed I'm all the way up here.

 

[Zardnaar]

In the good old days people of color (including Italians) were lynched, women were literal chattel and LGBT people were openly persecuted by both the state and public, not to mention that religious minorities such as Jews were also subject to various forms of discrimination.

I guess we have political correctness to thank for ameliorating some of that.

It was a joke. They claimed my grand dad was a war criminal for shooting down 3 German planes. Problem was it was 1955, he was a bit young for the war so decided to make up for lost time. Germans no sense of humor.

 

[Gorbles]

He didn't compare it to known slurs. He asked whether the right not to be addressed with words you don't like is a privilege reserved for minorities. Or it's a common courtesy.

They literally raised "cracker" as a comparison. If you're going to speak for someone else, at least read the posts first

 

[EnglishEdward]

I am not at all politically correct.

Political correctness in vocabulary starts from the concept that some supposedly enlightened group
may dictate the terminology to be used or forbidden and that any deviation from this is politically incorrect
and to be sanctioned. It is all about controlling peoples' thinking by first controlling their use of language.