Armageddon Oddities

[Kael]

that makes sense - if the barbarian kills one by one every player ingame, instead of fighting against everyone, he maybe can kill from time to time an AI. (or the human).

maybe I do not understand it correctly, but doesn't that mean, that if he NOT targets you, you're completely safe from barbarian attacks?

Not completly, Im vastly oversimplifying. But yes its entirely possible Buboes will cross right through your lands on the way to somewhere else if the Barb player is trying to finish that war before he turns on you.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

that's quite funny. it seems like sometimes the barbs act like they are dumb but they're actually acting wisely

 

[Psycho_Ivan]

They come piece meal though. It doesn't work all that well when you are only being attacked on odd occasion...

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

yep, I do agree that sometimes they don't work as they should. but it's hard to get a bunch of "if...or" ( aka an AI ) statements to act smart

 

[Sarisin]

Thank you for the clarification on that, Kael.

Like Bill, I am wondering what causes the barbs then to change their target. Clearly, if a civ is wiped out they would change.

However, in my games so far in .34 I have been mercilessly pounded by the barbs for a long time while AI civs were ignored and allowed to expand at will. This really gave them a leg up on research, etc. as they had a larger civ while I was battling barbs.

So, shouldn't there be a point when the barbs back off and go after someone else to avoid this balance issue? It seems that if you are bad at defending you are wiped out and lose, however, if you are good at defending, you fall behind the AI's growth and, maybe lose. The more the AI expands, of course, the more the map is filled and they are even less likely to have any barb incursions.

I guess the great equalizer is that if you are pounded by the barbs you earn a veteran army with lots of promotions better at defending against the AI in wars and in taking the wars to them. The only monkey wrench in the thing is that I find the AI gets ahead on technology and has stronger (but not veteran) units and scoops up most of the Wonders, Rituals, Religions, etc. while you are fending off barbs.

And, that's why, gentlemen, I propose no limit to XP for civs with the Raiders trait. Sorry, I had to work that in there somehow.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm still of the opinions that the barbs should be made stronger (given useful traits like Aggressive, Charismatic, and Raider, preferably granted when barb hero units like Orthus and the horsemen spawn and removed when they are defeated, as an extra reward), but that the xp limit against barbs should be removed.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

yeah, that would make things more interesting

 

[civ_king]

dont forget arcane (barbatos)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I used to give them arcane and summoner to be loat when Barbatos dies, but Barbatos has been removed from the game.

 

[Sarisin]

OK, back to the barbs targeting one civ thing...

I'm playing as the Illians and all but 5 (of 12) civs have been wiped out on the huge map. None have the Barbarian trait.

I was attacked for more than 250 turns before the barbs finally let up enough to go after another civ. I have more than 20 units with 100 XP (one with a Great Commander has nearly 400 XP). With the XP cap against barbs heaven knows how many units have been killed. Also, my priests have been summoning an Ice Elemental each turn to kill a barb unit. I have Adepts, a Griffon, and even a Tiger with 100 XP!!!

The point is I am pinned down to 4 cities and defending them with many units. Meanwhile, Sheaim has 20+ cities. I opened the World Builder and just about every city has a single Warrior, Pyre Zombie or Hunter defender. There is no way he could stand up to the barb pounding I have been getting.

I am still ahead on points, but I just don't get the dynamics now on why the barbs are consistently pounding me while ignoring the other civs.

Every time I try to free up a small army to go to Sheaim lands and take them out, here come the barb hordes again.

It is fun trying to defend, especially with Nox Noctis, but there doesn't seem to be any let up.

So, I'm wondering if there might be something broken with the way barbs target civs. Anyone else seeing this in raging barb games?

 

[farart]

I have one a question. Why units which appear together with AC not bee part Infernal? On mine it would be more logical to give them under control of Hiborem (for example when it summoned by Infernal Pact). I don`t like to be at war with "infernal" armies playing for Hiborem . I think, that Hiborem should control Riders of Apocalypseis. Its more realistic.

 

[brucedecatz]

Hyborem is barbarian, so he is not at war with the horsemen.

 

[farart]

brucedecatz Infernal`s Hyborem is playble race, his don`t barbarian. Horsemen is barbarian- that the point. I understand why barbarians Orc and lizardman alied whith Infernal. But why horsemen FROM HELL are not infernal? I say about BIG defferent between Ortus, Red Dragon (For example) and Hyborem and all linked with AC.

.. so he is not at war with the horsemen.

I know,but they CAN war whit AC units. It seems so strange.

Or AC-units come from another hell and they will not obey Hyborem?

 

[Mailbox]

brucedecatz Infernal`s Hyborem is playble race, his don`t barbarian. Horsemen is barbarian- that the point. I understand why barbarians Orc and lizardman alied whith Infernal. But why horsemen FROM HELL are not infernal? I say about BIG defferent between Ortus, Red Dragon (For example) and Hyborem and all linked with AC.

I know,but they CAN war whit AC units. It seems so strange.

Or AC-units come from another hell and they will not obey Hyborem?

The horsemen have nothing to do with hell. They're the mainfestations of the gods' fears, darkest desires, and the like.

 

[farart]

Ok. Let will be so. Simply I have imagine additional benefits for Hyborem from rising AC.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

@Sarisin: I've experienced something similar in my latest game. it wasn't raging barbs but barbarian world. similar story, I am at about turn 200 now and I've been hammered by barbs non-stop while my neighbours are left alone and expand merrily. it's kinda annoying, I agree that the barbs should stop picking a civ to dogpile, it's really weird. they should just be a nuisance/challenge ( depending if you play with raging barbs ) for EVERYONE ( except civs with the barbarian trait of course )

 

[Sarisin]

@Sarisin: I've experienced something similar in my latest game. it wasn't raging barbs but barbarian world. similar story, I am at about turn 200 now and I've been hammered by barbs non-stop while my neighbours are left alone and expand merrily. it's kinda annoying, I agree that the barbs should stop picking a civ to dogpile, it's really weird. they should just be a nuisance/challenge ( depending if you play with raging barbs ) for EVERYONE ( except civs with the barbarian trait of course )

Thank you for taking your time to reply, Gekko. I'm thinking many others are seeing this too.

I honestly don't have a problem with the barbs targeting one civ at a time. However, after the targeting, I believe in .34 there is a flaw. The barbs seem to keep targeting the same civ until either (a) the civ is wiped out or (b) well, they just don't stop.

This is clearly a balance issue IMO as you are forced into defensive mode virtually the whole game and do not have a chance to expand beyond a few protected cities. Meanwhile civs not targeted can expand at will not fearing barb invasions. They move ahead in tech, pump out more GPs, and build more wonders.

As I said, I didn't see this in .33. The barbs would throw their units at you for a time, then back off and go after someone else if you defended against them and beat off their attacks. Not now, though. If you open the world builder you can see barbs coming from all the way across the map ignoring other easy pickins' on their way to your civ. This is fine, but it should not continue for 250 turns in a game. There must be a point when the attacks break off and another civ is targeted or the game just isn't balanced IMO.

 

[BillSeurer]

I noticed something in a recent game with the "barbs target you mercilessly" deal. If there is a choke point through which the barbs are coming and you fill that point with a unit so that there is no clear path it will break off the assault. Some units already on the way will still head in and the usual wandering ones still show up but the focused wrath of the bards seems to be broken by this. I've seen it in two different games on two different maps now.

 

[Imuratep]

In my last game Blight won me the game. I prepared very good to it, by researching Medicine and by building all buildings in my cities and had no at all, while others lost 200-300 points, and it was quite easy to rush them .

 

[onedreamer]

However, this leads to two issues.
Firstly, are the horsemen of the apocalypse allied with the in-game barbarians? I really do not see how hostile barbarian units would/should ally themselves with horsemen bent on simply destroying all living things. Though for the sake of keeping things simple I suppose they were just added as barbarian allies.
Secondly, would Acheron simply sit around without a fight and watch a horseman walk right into his cave and destroy his hoard? That feels kind of awkward to me.

like you said the horsemen are barbarian, hence allied with Acheron. He would watch them walk through since they surely wouldn't destroy his hoard.