Armies of Asia

That would make a lot of sense. I have always wondered how the Tokugawa were able to retain their ownership of Japan into the Edo Period. I mean yes, they did have it kind of passed down from Oda to Toyotomi to them, but there could have easily been rebellion following that, had the Tokugawa not monopolized saltpeter.

Well I mean I'm just thinking it's good if all the eras are covered, there is no problem with that, especially with this quality. I like reading/playing all of Japanese history, including that of Yayoi and Meiji. It's just that the ancient/classical hasn't been covered yet, so I'm quite interested in how it'll be. :) I'm especially fond of the gunpowder units you've made Bakuel, since they have accurate guns and models never before seen here.
 
 
Sword_Of_Geddon said:
Just popping in here to say once again you've done excellent work on these units Bakuel.

Keep up the awesome discussion guys. :goodjob:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words! I'll try to post some more units in a few weeks.


Matsuda123 said:
Honestly I'm just happy that there will finally be ancient/classical era Japanese units not in sengoku dress as well. Yayoi and Nara periods don't seem to be covered much on civfanatics unit wise, and it always kind of bothered me to see medieval units in ancient times, so to know that one of the best unit makers is making them is incredible. :)
Click to expand...

Walter Hawkwood said:
Truth be said, I agree with Matsuda123 here; if you are going to make Japanese units (and I am fine with that), please let them be pre-Sengoku, especially since that would be more accurate with regard to stone crossbow. We modders need some pre-Sengoku units for Japan.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, I plan to make ancient Japanese units. The Japanese ancient unit pack will probably have a Jomon warrior and scout, plus various Yayoi and Nara units. The medieval pack will be based on the long period between the ninth century and the Sengoku era. The renaissance pack will be the Sengoku era, I know it has been done before but I plan to cover a few of the odder and more interesting things so this one will still be worth a look. The industrial period will lightly cover the Edo period and the early years of the Meji period up to 1900.

I'll start working on Japan after I'm done with the industrial units for the civs I have already made. Japan isn't too far of a jump from the Philippines and it would finish off all of the Asian island civs I have planned.
I'll work on them at the same time I'm working on the Khmer units.

Walter Hawkwood said:
Went looking for sources, and my own post is now #4 source on Japanese whalebone crossbows. :D:D:D
Click to expand...

See, these are the important historical questions that people should research! I want someone to write a tome on the use of whalebone in ancient Japan!

Once again thanks for the info. :D


Matsuda123 said:
Well I mean I'm just thinking it's good if all the eras are covered, there is no problem with that, especially with this quality. I like reading/playing all of Japanese history, including that of Yayoi and Meiji. It's just that the ancient/classical hasn't been covered yet, so I'm quite interested in how it'll be. :) I'm especially fond of the gunpowder units you've made Bakuel, since they have accurate guns and models never before seen here.
Click to expand...

I plan to spend special attention to the gunpowder weapons of Japan, they had some really interesting ones.

Matsuda123 said:
I found more resources just in case,

Yayoi:
http://realculturejapan.mods.jp/sword/sword61(armor8)/012.gif
http://fascinating-times.tumblr.com/post/97891175662/yayoi-period-300-bce-to-250-ce-clothing

Kofun?:
http://realculturejapan.mods.jp/sword/sword61(armor8)/014.gif

Nara:
http://realculturejapan.mods.jp/sword/sword61(armor8)/015.gif

Heian:
http://realculturejapan.mods.jp/sword/sword61(armor8)/017.gif

Sengoku:
http://realculturejapan.mods.jp/sword/sword61(armor8)/026.gif
http://realculturejapan.mods.jp/sword/sword61(armor8)/031.gif
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pictures! The tumblr one with the Yayoi clothing will be very useful for workers.

I have found some of the scans of the History of Japanese Armor pictures in this thread. The book seems to be really good and features multiple viewpoints of armor and weapons, including the ultra-rare back view. Does anyone know if there are anymore scans from this book floating around out there? Especially of the possible Kofun one?
 
I'm always happy to see new Asian worker units, that's really quite a treat. I liked the tumblr clothing too, especially the one with the square like white hat. Any chance that there might be an industrial Japanese worker? I mean we have a modern asian worker, but it is kind of questionable in my opinion. Glad to see Industrial units in southeast asia too, haven't seen a lot before so it fills in quite a gap. :)

Khmer stuff is going to be a hard find unfortunately, most of it's history is either gone or on base reliefs, but it should be possible. I found some more Kofun era stuff from ebay and Pinterest...

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/215609900882777474/

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/484911084852900922/

http://www.50yen.com/images/uniform/04/img_1073.jpg

http://www.50yen.com/images/uniform/04/img_1074.jpg

http://www.50yen.com/images/uniform/04/img_1075.jpg
 
Bakuel said:
I have found some of the scans of the History of Japanese Armor pictures in this thread. The book seems to be really good and features multiple viewpoints of armor and weapons, including the ultra-rare back view. Does anyone know if there are anymore scans from this book floating around out there? Especially of the possible Kofun one?
Click to expand...

Check your PM box. ;)

BTW, there is also a book by the same author on XIX-early XX century Japanese uniforms. If you decide to make some Bakumatsu units, I'd be glad to provide it as well.
 
I just thought of something recently, did the Japanese ever use chariots? The only evidence I've found is on some plate from the Kofun era, on the wikipedia page for Kofun era military. Is there any other evidence that I haven't seen by chance, or did they just never really use them?
 
You're right, Japan only begun to import horses in large numbers sometime around the fourth century or so. By this time, chariot warfare had been obsolete for centuries in the mainland.

By the way, sorry for the slow responses and unit making, I've recently started a new job. The next batch of units will be done in two more weeks.
 
Additionally, does anyone have resource for the Xia dynasty military for when Bakuel reaches China? I've searched everywhere, and found a decent amount of Shang dynasty, but is there no artist's conception of Xia military?
 
Sword of Geddon is right. While we know through archaeology that there was *some* form of complex bronze age society in northern China before the Shang Dynasty, (1), no one knows how it ties in with the Xia Dynasty found in the Chinese historical records which where written centuries later. Some people say that the Xia dynasty is a total fabrication by the Zhou Dynasty to legitimize themselves. If the Shang had superseded the Xia, then that means that it was totally legitimate for one dynasty to take control from another. Another view is that the Xia dynasty did exist in some form or another, even if the stories had become legendary and fantastically by the time that they were written down.

In a way, the Xia dynasty's factual basis is very similar to the factual basis of the Iliad. We know that their were complex societies living in Greece and Anatolia during the bronze age and the "Greek Dark Ages". They probably went to war with each other and there seems to have been some city called Troy. But it doubtful that any of the details of the Iliad are true.
 
Yeah, if there was such a dynasty, I theorize that it was probably fairly small, and relegated to basic civil work and defending against the constant threat of the other smaller tribes/city state establishments nearer to it. While I cannot prove such statements, from what I have read, the Chinese seem to have started off as a fairly large tribe/tribes, Xia eventually formed after either the unification of several tribes or one became large enough to have cities sometime near 2000 B.C., and the other tribes who did not join remained its city-stateish like adversaries along the river. How Shang came into being after, I'm still working on, but most likely through family ties or the Xia were possibly conquered.

But besides that, I'm wondering, what will you do Bakuel, since there aren't really resources about Xia? Go straight to Shang or..? I guess there are always basic clothes and items of course, that could work.
 
I'm not *too* worried about doing the Xia Dynasty/Pre-Shang era as there are little to no good primary or secondary sources for how armies looked during this time. I'll probably just make a pre-Shang Warrior and Scout based on basic clothing from that era.

I actually plan to combine the Pre-Shang, Shang and early Zhou period up to the Spring and Autumn period into one Bronze Age China pack. I also plan to combine the Spring and Autumn period, Warring States and Qin Dynasty into a single colossal Iron Age pack. All the units will be labeled and historically accurate, but this will help with book keeping and insure that their is little overlap in concepts. For instance, there doesn't need to be several different spear wielding peasants for the Xia, Shang and Zhou dynasties when basic peasant dress did not seem to have changed much during these periods.
 
They look really nice, you always amaze me:hatsoff:
 
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