Ask a Hindu/Ask an Indian

Then how can I read or at least pronounce what it says? :confused:. The Romanization of any non latin language, I admit, does help me in trying to read the word(s) if I am unfamiliar with the text itself in the beguinning.

There are Romanisation schemes which use weird combinations of capital letters and diacritical marks and accents to express the full range of the Devanagri script. You'll have to learn at least two or three of them. But don't worry about it, you'll be able to read without much trouble even without these schemes.
 
We do not equate nation with race, we equate it with culture and citizenship.
Pakistan has been Islamicised. Their Indian heritage is being erased. I know that. They have nothing in common with us.

what about muslim-indian than?

And I don't "hate" Pakistanis, I'd just prefer it if they all disappeared somewhere, the same way you would prefer it if pests like mosquitoes disappeared. They're a constant irritant.
I presume you know of the Kargil war?

You just said earier that you hate them, changed your mind? or want to look nice?
 
Brilliant. It's one of the most used and abused lines in the Gita. It's also one of my favourites.

सर्वधर्मान्परित्यज्य मामेकं शरणं व्रज।
अहं त्वा सर्वपापेभ्यो मोक्षयिष्यामि मा शुच।।६६।।

A more literal translation would be:

Setting aside all meritorious deeds, just surrender completely to My will (with firm faith and loving contemplation). I shall liberate you from all sins (or the bonds of Karma). Do not grieve. (18.66)


The notorious difficulty in the translation of this verse is the translation of the word Dharma. Some people interpret it to mean "religion", but I don't see it that way, because the concept of an organised "religion" is alien to the author of the Gita. The above translation is also not fully correct, because it is obvious that he is not telling Arjuna to stop doing good, either. It can be interpreted to mean that Arjuna should continue doing his duties, but not consider them binding, not consider them the ultimate Dharma, and that he should consider only bhakti his dharma. This is the interpretation I take.

The right Interpretation is not this one however ;)
 
India has no one "language". Most of the north of the country speaks Indo-Aryan languages. Hindi is the dominant one, with others being very similar to it. All of them have a common root in Sanskrit. The people of the south speak Dravidian languages. Sanskrit is not a spoken language any more, except by the revivalists. It's a bit like Latin. It's still the Hindu liturgical language, though.

Sanskrit was, once upon a time, the link and royal and technical language of India. Whatever information you wanted to last for ever, you put in Sanskrit. The grammar of the language was formalised by the grammarian and logician Panini. That grammar has stood the test of time, and is so perfect that no change to the language specification has been made till now, and probably won't be made in the foreseeable future. The effect of this formalisation is that Sanskrit works written more than two thousand years ago are still as readable today as they were back then, with no changes.



The Latin alphabet is not capable of expressing the Sanskrit language, because it cannot express the Devanagari script in which the language is written.



The Sanskrit language uses the Devanagari script, which is an alphabetic abugida phonetic script, of the Brahmic family.

Does Sanskrit only use Devanagari or can it use other scripts too? Do you think Sanskrit has or could make a comeback as a modern day vernacular?
 
Does Sanskrit only use Devanagari or can it use other scripts too?

It is possible (and easy) for it to use other Brahmic scripts. It is possible, but not easy, for it to use other Indic scripts. It is possible, but not worth the headache, to make it use a non-Indic script.

Do you think Sanskrit has or could make a comeback as a modern day vernacular?

Vernacular? I'd say that's extremely difficult. It is seeing a resurgence, however, among Indians conscious of their heritage, and among Hindus wanting to access the sources of Hindu thought directly. It is quite possible that it will make a comeback as the link language among the Hindu elite, and in turn elevate anyone who knows it to the status of one among the Hindu elite.
 
what about muslim-indian than?

With development and the rise of education among Muslims, Islam in India will wither away under cultural pressure from Hinduism. These people are culturally Hindu in a number of important ways, and that can be exploited to revert them.

You just said earier that you hate them, changed your mind? or want to look nice?

I hate the Pakistani state unequivocally. I do not hate Pakis, I just think their existence is a threat to us. Now I don't know how to solve the problem without violating human rights, so I'd say we keep it at bay until such a solution can be found.
 
It is possible (and easy) for it to use other Brahmic scripts. It is possible, but not easy, for it to use other Indic scripts. It is possible, but not worth the headache, to make it use a non-Indic script.



Vernacular? I'd say that's extremely difficult. It is seeing a resurgence, however, among Indians conscious of their heritage, and among Hindus wanting to access the sources of Hindu thought directly. It is quite possible that it will make a comeback as the link language among the Hindu elite, and in turn elevate anyone who knows it to the status of one among the Hindu elite.

Thanks. I've only recently become interested in Sanskrit. It does seem like a fascinating language and one that is important to any serious student of multiple indo-european langauges.

Now to Buddhism. Do you think Buddhism is making a comeback in India and is it really there to stay? From what I understand, Buddhism was extinguished in India mostly because of the Islamic invaders who persecuted Buddhists and destroyed a lot of Buddhist relics. Of course, Hinduism has been a victim too. What's the future of religions like Buddhism and Jainism in India (native religions to India)? Also, correct me if I'm wrong but Buddha also takes has a special place in Hinduism?
 
From what I understand, Buddhism was extinguished in India mostly because of the Islamic invaders who persecuted Buddhists and destroyed a lot of Buddhist relics.

One of the causes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Buddhism_in_India

Buddhism declined in India following the loss of patronage due several factors.

[edit] Absence of Royal support

One reason for the early strength of Buddhism in early Indian history was the support of the local Buddhist kings such as the kings of Magadha, Kosala and the Kushan and Pala Empires.Weakening of Buddhism was thus also related to the absence of royal patronage after the fall of these sympathetic rulers. Some Hindu rulers resorted to military means in an effort to suppress Buddhism.[12]

A continuing decline occurred after the fall of the last Empire supportive of Buddhism: the Pala dynasty in the 12th century CE. This continued with the later destruction of monasteries by the new Muslim conquerors[13] and their attempts to spread Islam in the region.[14]

[edit] Influence of Hinduism

Hinduism became a more "intelligible and satisfying road to faith for many ordinary worshippers" because it now included not only an appeal to a personal god, but had also seen the development of an emotional facet with the composition of devotional hymns.[12]

The period between the 400 BCE and 1000 CE saw gains by Hinduism at the expense of Buddhism. [12]

[edit] Destruction by Invading Conquerors

[edit] The White Hun invasions

Chinese scholars traveling through the region between the 5th and 8th centuries CE, such as Faxian, Xuanzang, I-ching, Hui-sheng, and Sung-Yun, began to speak of a decline of the Buddhist Sangha, especially in the wake of the White Hun invasion. [13]

[edit] Turkish Muslim Conquerors

The Muslim conquest of the Indian subcontinent was the first great iconoclastic invasion into South Asia.[15] Concurrent with the suppression of Hinduism, the invading forces also suppressed the Buddhist population.[16][17]

[edit] Causes within the Buddhist Tradition of the time

By the time the Muslims began conquering India in the twelfth century under the Ghurids, the number of monasteries had severely declined.[14][18] Buddhism, which once had spread across the face of India, was a vital force confined to an ever-shrinking number of monasteries in the areas of its origins.[14][18] Scholars believe that the monasteries at the time became detached from everyday life in India and that Indian Buddhism had no rituals or priests with the laymen relying on Brahmin priests for marriages and funerals.[14][18] Buddhism was at that time concentrated in large, wealthy and powerful university-styled monasteries (like for example Nalanda), where monks would have several lay-servants working for them, and would not be bothered much with the life (and problems) of ordinary people, leading to a weakening of support for Buddhism.
 
Could someone answer my questions? They are on page 9 :D

I thought that shankara absorbed a lot of buddhism back into hinduism?
 
Thanks. I've only recently become interested in Sanskrit. It does seem like a fascinating language and one that is important to any serious student of multiple indo-european langauges.

If you learn Sanskrit, you will not regret it. There exists a gigantic corpus of literature in the Sanskrit language concerning all fields of human endeavour. The treatises on philosophy and psychology and techniques of meditation are truly stunning.

Also, of you want a language for the ages - something like a time capsule, where anything you write in that language will be perfectly intelligible three thousand years later without any need for interpretation, then Sanskrit is your best bet. The language grammar and lexicon have remained unchanged for over two and a half millennia, and will not change again any time in the next few, either.

Now to Buddhism. Do you think Buddhism is making a comeback in India and is it really there to stay?

A number of people who were formerly considered untouchables have very cynically co-opted Buddhism as a political tool. They blame Hinduism for their ills (not recognising that there does not exist any one dogma such as Hinduism, on which a premise of religious oppression can be based), and see this as a way of getting some sort of perverse "revenge". Some of the vows these people take as part of their "initiation" or "conversion" include negatives such as:

�1) I will not regard Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh as gods nor will I worship them;

�2) I will not regard Rama and Krishna as gods nor will I worship them;

�3) I will not accept Hindu deities like Gauri, Ganapati etc., nor will I worship them;

�4) I do not believe that God has taken birth or incarnation in any form;

�5) I do not believe that Lord Buddha was the incarnation of Vishnu, I believe this propaganda is mischievous and false;

�6) I will never perform any Shraddha nor will I offer any Pinda [i.e. Brahminical funeral and post-funeral rites];

�8) I will not have any Samskara [ritual] performed by Brahmins;

�11) I embrace today the Bauddha Dhamma, discarding the Hindu religion which is detrimental to the emancipation of human beings and which believes in inequality and regards human beings other than Brahmins as low-born.�

The entire thing is a propaganda and mass-hysterical exercise created by Ambedkar to ensure that the "converts" discard their old ways and do not go back to their natural modes of worship.

As this is a cynical political tool, it will die with time.

One thing I have observed - no religion can survive in India for more than a millennium in any significant number. Hinduism conquers all in this country.

From what I understand, Buddhism was extinguished in India mostly because of the Islamic invaders who persecuted Buddhists and destroyed a lot of Buddhist relics.

Quite correct.

Hinduism's priests and die-hard defenders were (and to a significant extent, still are) a hereditary order or caste called the Brahmanas. As such, any Brahmana can become a priest. No special ordination or initiation is necessary, the normal ceremonies pertaining to the caste are more than enough. The Brahmanas were a normal part of society, and were much more than just priests, so it was impossible to kill them in any significant way. And as long as they persisted, Hinduism survived.

Buddhism's priestly and monastic order, on the other hand, was a group of people who had undergone an initiation, and who lived in large monasteries and universities called "viharas". When these places were sacked by the Muslims, they killed the monks, as the monks had no wider societal significance other than being monks (and therefore the object of the hatred of the Muslims). A genocide of monks became possible because of their centralisation and dependence. And given the nature of Islam, it was inevitable that the genocide happened. And because the core of Buddhism was destroyed in this way, the religion itself perished.

Of course, Hinduism has been a victim too.

True. For instance, Muslims kings used to burn defiant Brahmanas alive, tying them to stakes and setting fire to both the top, where their hands were tied, and the bottom, where their feet were, so they would die in the most brutal manner possible.

What's the future of religions like Buddhism and Jainism in India (native religions to India)?

If the neo-Buddhists (the followers of Ambedkar) can get over their hatred of Hinduism, and become genuinely interested in Buddhism, instead of using it as merely a political tool, then Buddhism has a bright future in India. If not, then it will wither away as a tree without a root.

Jainism has co-existed with Hinduism for millennia, and I think it will probably continue to exist for many more to come. Neither of us has any trouble with the other, to be honest. We just don't care about their religion, and neither do they about ours.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but Buddha also takes has a special place in Hinduism?

Most Hindus consider him an enlightened man. Many consider him an incarnation of Vishnu. In general, the impression is positive. I hope that the neo-Buddhists do not spoil this.
 
Couldn't they just change their name to somethign random, and then not pay attention the trappongs of the system?

Perhaps.

Also, would you, in general, call Hinduism a religion of progress? Other hindus I have talked to have said it's quite reactionary and fatalistic, would you agree?

No. Hinduisim being a religon cannot be progressive. Religon is regressive. Religon is against science and such. Hinduisim and other religons once upon a time a couple thousand years ago may have been progressive but in the modern world religon should be discarded.

Finally, is indian society as duty bound as it is often made out to be?

Yes.
 
How does the caste system affect daily life in India now?

Caste is a very complex topic. I have spent many hours cogitating over it, and still not come to any concrete conclusion. The only thing that can be said about it is that sometime back in the very far past, a system of a division of labour and organisation of society started to stratify and become hereditary, resulting in caste as we know it.

The advent of Buddhism further complicated things, by precipitating the concept of "untouchability" and ritual impurity. So did the concept of the sacredness of the cow.

The Muslim invasion added another twist, by leading to a general warping of society as a response to it. The evils of child marriage, sati, and a general stratification of society became prominent during this period.

The British added yet another variable into the already strained equation, by leading to lopsided development of different caste groups, and by their attempt to catalogue and manage caste.

Why haven't people opted out of it, as it seems its still going in places.

It's impossible to "opt out" unless society in general becomes insensitive to it. For instance, I am one of the least caste-conscious people I know, and consider it bad taste and rude to ask someone their caste, and I don't care for caste as it is, but I still have to answer people when they ask me what caste I am.

Among the urban educated affluent elite, caste is a non-issue. Among others, it remains a sad reality, though discrimination on its basis has reduced to almost nothing in areas where the free market's effects have been felt the most.
 
Thanks for the answers ^^

I know this guy( 21) who came over from India, he is trying to find someone to marry, but doesnt want to marry down caste, hence my question ( I thought it had been outlawed or something)
 
Please ignore the answer silver has given. He doesn't know much about Indian society, nor about Hinduism, nor about caste. He is an American.

Couldn't they just change their name to somethign random, and then not pay attention the trappongs of the system?

As I said, opting out is impossible until the wider society becomes insensitive to the system. As such, caste discrimination is illegal in India, but it is a reality nonetheless. Though it is a good thing that with the advent of education and wealth, caste is dying, even if slowly.

Also, would you, in general, call Hinduism a religion of progress?

In general, yes.

Other hindus I have talked to have said it's quite reactionary and fatalistic, would you agree?

I'd disagree, and I'd question their knowledge of Hinduism.

Let us take the example of the Bhagwad Gita, a text almost universally thought a good guide to life by Hindus.

Krishna is considered an incarnation of Vishnu. In the epic the Mahabharat, two groups of cousins fight a way, with the rightful heirs to the kingdom (the Pandavas) having to fight their corrupt and in general degenerate rivals (the Kauravas). Krishna is on the side of the righteous ones.

Due to a number of circumstances, most of the relatives and teaches of the Pandavas are aligned against them.

As the day of the battle dawns, and the armies prepare to fight, Arjuna, the greatest archer of the age and the foremost hero of the Pandava camp, sees his friends, relatives, and teachers, all arrayed against him, and starts to lose hope and his will to fight, even though he knows that he is right and they are wrong.

The conflict in Arjuna's (to fight or not to fight) mind is a reflection of the external conflict between right and wrong. It is Krishna who resolves this conflict decisively in favour of action instead of fatalism.

It is in this context, at such on occasion, located in between the two opposing forces, under the shadow of an urgently impending war, that Krishna delivers his message to the world, and the rousing call to action, that is the Bhagwad Gita. In it, he addresses all of Arjuna's doubts, and provides a moral and philosophical basis for the carrying out of action and duty in this world.



How such a message of action, of such a powerful call to action, can be taken to be one of fatalism or of being reactionary is a mystery to me.

Who are the Hindus you come in contact with? In which context? Of what age? That will provide a pointer to why they say so.

Finally, is indian society as duty bound as it is often made out to be?

It depends. Indian society is not monolithic. But it is, in general, more duty-conscious than others.
 
Thanks for the answers ^^

I know this guy( 21) who came over from India, he is trying to find someone to marry, but doesnt want to marry down caste, hence my question ( I thought it had been outlawed or something)

Marriage remains a curious exception.

When going for an arranged marriage, people try to make sure that the chances of the marriage working are maximised. For that to happen, the two people have to be from roughly the same social, economic, cultural, religious, and caste background, so as to minimise potential differences and maximise compatibility by reducing the compromises required. They treat caste a simply another source of potential discord, and in order to minimise risk to the marriage, they try to harmonise it.





As for the guy thing: according to the now-discarded old laws, a man may marry down-caste or equal-caste, but a woman must marry only someone equal to or above her in status. According to the very old laws, anyone may marry anyone (point him to the marriage laws of the Artha Shastra of Kautilya).
 
I know enough. Since youre Hindu u;ll have a diffrent opnion doesn't mean that your opnion is the correct one.

Mine may not be absolutely "correct", because no opinion ever is, but it's:

a) From an insider to both the religion and the society,
b) Authentic (as in, backed up by a knowledge and an extensive study of the living tradition and the texts), and
c) Born of a long and intense observation of both Indian society and religion

I am also not rabidly anti-religion, as you have confessed to being on a number of occasions. Nor am I blindly pro-religion. Given the fact that "religion" doesn't really apply to Hinduism, and the fact that you've applied that word to it, the very fact that we're having this discussion is proof enough that you need to deepen your understanding.
 
You are qually biased.

Quite possibly.

But I try to present an objective view.

And I know how to spell. :p

You call Hinduisim a progressive religon then how do you explain the burning of MF. Hussins house and artwork because he painted the Hindu goddesses nude?

Progress consists of two steps forward, one step back

I explain the attempted arson on M.F. Hussein's house, and the vandalism of some of his paintings, by the fact that stupidity and stupid people is and are universal. When judging a tradition on the said stupid people, you have to see whether or not it condones or condemns their behaviour. If it does not sanction it, then it is above reproach.

We have to ask: do the Shankaracharyas support this? Do other prominent dharmacharyas support this? Do the smritis and dharmashastras, and the contemporary law-givers, support this? Does wider Hindu society support this? And the answer is an unequivocal "NO!"

Or perhaps how various state governments have greatly hindered the process of conversion from Hinduisim to other religons.

What you fail to mention is those same laws make it equally difficult to convert from other religions to Hinduism, too.

The law in such cases mandates that people converting between religion "families" have to notify the state of their conversion one month in advance. That's it. So conversions between Hinduism, Jainism, and Buddhism are instantaneous. So are conversions between the different Islamic sects, and the different Christian denominations. It is when, for instance, a Muslim wants to become a Christian that he must notify the state one month in advance that he intends to do so.

The purpose of such laws is to make sure that people who may have been converted by force or fraud have a chance to retract if they so choose.

Or the attacks against churches and missionaries by Hinduvata people.

Please do not bring Hindutva into this, and do not talk about things of which you probably know nothing. Have you read Savarkar's text on the subject, which founded the Hindutva ideology? Or any other supplemental text which provides a concise definition of Hindutva? ANYTHING other than what you come across in the English language media?

Just today in the papers two preists were attacked, and a Hindu Nationalist political party Shiv Sena has thrown its support behind the attackers.

Again, you show that you don't know the context.

The Shiv Sena started out as a Marathi chauvinist party. That platform stopped paying dividends, so, like any cynical political party, they shifted to the broader appeal of Hindutva. They appeal to the fringe of the political spectrum. They are not considered real Hindutvawadis by the core of the movement.

Also, Hindus are not "nationalist" in the sense you know it.

Or how can Hinduisim be progressive when the great moral police attempt to arrest Richard Gere for kissing that annoying woman?

THERE IS NO MORAL POLICE!!!! It was an arrest mandated by the independent, secular judicial system!

Let me explain in more detail how such a silly thing can happen.

The person who filed this lawsuit is famous for this sort of frivolous litigation. There exists an old anti-obscenity law, unchanged since British times, which makes the behaviour of Richard Gere illegal. It's one of those silly laws which stays on the books because nobody cares and it's never enforced, only this time, somebody tried to use it, and the judiciary had to obey the law, silly and outdated as it may be, and enforce it. The law is fine in its place, except for the fact that the definition of obscenity needs to be re-defined (from a peck on the cheek to making out in public, for instance).

This has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Hinduism. It has everything to do with old and obsolete laws, and just plain silliness.

You are merely looking at the Hindu texts, why not look at the actions of its followers?

I am looking at not just the texts, but at three things:

a) Wider Hindu society
b) The living tradition
c) The texts

I do not judge a religion on only the basis of what its followers do, because you can make any claim about any sizeable religious group and have it stick, by that criterion. Instead, I see how the opinion of the society that religion has fostered, of the tradition it has, and of its texts (or rather, accepted authority). If the society, tradition, and authority, all support a certain assertion, only then do I take it to be absolutely true for that religion. If the tradition and authority support it, but not the wider society, then I take it to be overwhelmingly true. If the society and tradition do not support it, but the authority does, then I take it to be mostly true.

Your perspective on your religon and your own society is biased, you are a Hindu nationalists and have repeatedely stated how you wish to see Hindusim restored to its past glory.

My perspective being biased is no refutation of my arguments and reasoning, is it? If I say that the sky is blue, or appears blue, then that is not in any way affected by who or what I am.

I am not a Hindu nationalist, for I do not believe that simply being a Hindu qualifies you to be a co-nationalist. Nor do I believe in the existence of a Hindu "nation". So your assertion falls flat.

I wish to see a few things:

a) The restoration of India's historic borders
b) The restoration of Indic cultural influence within those borders
c) The rise of that new Indic nation as the world's foremost power in all spheres of human endeavour
d) The formation of an India state/nation which is unshakeably stable and peaceful
e) The creation of a welfare society which ensures the non-coercive welfare of the people which is independent of the state
f) The restoration of Indic institutions, in a new form is necessary, which serve the same purpose as the old ones did

This is ultimately a vision born of compassion for my fellow Indians and a pride in my culture and traditions and heritage.

You may have more expirence regarding Indian society however that expierence is tempered by the fact you were born into that society.

My experience is not "tempered" by my being born in this society, is is enriched by it, as I have always, since my early childhood, been an observer, an outsider who can objectively see and analyse what he sees. I can shift effortlessly between the roles of outside observer and inside participant, which you find it impossible to do. I have the benefit of both perspectives. I also have bothered to go the root, to the original sources of culture and tradition.

I don't know when this idea started gaining currency that someone from a given society is incapable of analysing it objectively. I'm probably far more objective than you are on most issues.

Your perspective isn't nessecarily the true one, and just because I am an NRI doesn't mean that my perspective on Indian society cannot also be valid.

Your view is most probably the correct one given your context and experience (affluent NRI educated in a private boarding school for rich NRIs, isolated from normal Indian society, in a major metropolitan city with no strong cultural pressure). My point is that my range of experience is much wider and richer.

Your view of Indian society is shaped by three things:

a) The American view
b) The English-language media of India
c) Your NRI peers, themselves no insiders
d) The extremely limited interaction you have with a very small segment of real India you come in contact with

You are also handicapped by not being well-read in any Indian language.
 
When the crap are you going to make that thread where you prove your crazy hindu spirit world exists? You said it's trivially easy after all, so it isn't as if it would place a big ol' burden on you!

Oh and why do you want India alone to be the world's foremost power in all spheres of human endevour? Are you racist?
 
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