Ask a Muslim

[Nick Garai]

What is the Islamic community's beliefs in regards to the Holocaust? Does the Clergy teach that it did happen? Does Islam denounce the Holocaust as "Zionist" propoganda to re-acquire the Holy Land?

 

[Yeeek]

Why religious people can't get along? Okay, humans already have a hard time getting along but it seems religions only make things worse.

 

[Nick Garai]

Yeeek, that is a pretty easy question to ask. Religion would help people to get along if everyone were of the same religion.

Unfortunately, disputes arise when people choose to live their own life and not in accordance with what was intended. If everyone were to get along, we'd be robots.

Thankfully we aren't.

It's like asking for all the girls to be big boobs and all the guys to stop being dicks.

Both of which are never going to stop. It is just life. Pick the right God.

 

[Masquerouge]

I'd like to know more about the help Saudi Arabia provides to the Palestinians.

 

[skadistic]

Skadistic expecting you to graciously decline to talk about this in a thread where it has no relevance, is like expecting you to have an unbiased view about the Middle East based on your media propaganda, obviously never likely to happen, ever heard of discretion? I ask again no one but you wants to discuss this, take it to another thread where your inane biased claptrap can be destroyed in more detail again

I was asking a muslim questions in the ask a muslim thread....my god whats wrong with me. If he didn't want to answer he didn't have to. Nor did you have to go on about it seeing as non of it was directed at you. And yet again someone tells me where I get my views from so since this is an ask a thread I'll ask you to tell me exactly what it is my views are where they come from, what media exactly. Since you know.

 

[knigh+]

What is the Islamic community's beliefs in regards to the Holocaust? Does the Clergy teach that it did happen? Does Islam denounce the Holocaust as "Zionist" propoganda to re-acquire the Holy Land?

Why would the clergy teach history, it is not their job. We have history teachers for that purpose.

And the religion of Islam can not denounce something that happened in 20th century because it was established in the 7th century. If some muslims of today don't believe the holocaust, it is their personal opinion and has nothing to do with religion.

 

[Nick Garai]

knigh+, the clergy in Islam are more powerful than in Christianity.

I am asking about the holocaust because the current Iranian Leader is denouncing it and wish to know if Islam in general, has this same view or if it is just the proclamation of a leader.

And it can have a lot to do with religion. If the church/clergy SAYS that something did/didn't happen then usually people accept that as the truth. Small Lemmings do listen to the Bigger Lemmings.

 

[Homie]

No, I do not. I believe that it is a mixed bag, and the treatment of women can be traced back to education and poverty. Wherever there is a lack of education and an excess of poverty, there you will find maltreatment of women not far behind. It has very little to do with religion, as people mistakenly think. People point at Islam and say "look how your women are treated in your countries." Well, look at any third world country and you will find similar treatment. Pakistan is Muslim. India is Hindu. You will find absolutely no difference in the way they treat their women (generally the poor--which are the masses--treat their women badly).



I very much support segregation of the genders. This is an important part of our faith. We believe that the fornication-friendly environment of the West is immoral and, quite frankly, animalistic.

What I find mildly amusing is that the West has the gall to criticize Muslims on this aspect. It is one of the signs of the End of Times that there will come a time that people will show off about bad things and criticize good things.

Having said that, I do not agree with the model of Saudi Arabia, and I believe it is important to keep things equal between men and women. After all, the Prophet (s) said: "The best of you are those who are the best to their women." Indeed, as a Muslim I believe in a strict code of chivalry which revolves around protecting, helping, respecting, and even pampering women. However, I believe it is very much possible to respect women and also respect gender segregation (which I believe is integral to any chaste and honorable society).

I would get started on this topic, but I will stop because I would offend most people here, and that is not my intention. Furthermore, there would be a vast divide between myself and everyone else, since I don't even believe in men and women shaking hands or touching each other at all (before marriage). I also believe in strictly lowering my gaze away from looking at women I find attractive, and other such things which I doubt any non-Muslims living in the West could understand.

----------

More to come, Allah Willing.

I understand what you are saying with regards to gender seperation. But I ask you: Living in the west where arranged marriages is not a custom, how would one go about finding a wife if one were to avoid any contact/fraternization with women?

 

[Nick Garai]

I understand what you are saying with regards to gender seperation. But I ask you: Living in the west where arranged marriages is not a custom, how would one go about finding a wife if one were to avoid any contact/fraternization with women?

Plentyoffish.com

LOL

 

[knigh+]

knigh+, the clergy in Islam are more powerful than in Christianity.

That is an irony in itself But still, they don't "teach" stuff. The imams speak to masses before friday prayers only (and prayers on religious holidays), just like Christian priests with Sunday sermons. I have never heard an imam talk about historical events (of course I can't speak for all imams here). They usually talk either about how we should behave, or current world events prayer for those who currently suffer etc. I mean, I guess an imam may talk about Palestinian sufferings - as it is current - but I can't imagine any would waste their sermon on some 60 year old event that is not even remotely related to Muslims.

I am asking about the holocaust because the current Iranian Leader is denouncing it and wish to know if Islam in general, has this same view or if it is just the proclamation of a leader.

I know he does that. Most of the holocaust denouncers are Christian - does that mean Christians are anti-semitic? I don't understand why actions of crazy muslims (Taliban, ObL, Ahmedinejad) are often attributed to Islam, while actions of crazy Christians are not attributed to Christianity. Two kids do the Columbine massacre in US, and nobody concludes Christianity teaches kids to kill their classmates. Bush acts in his Bushy ways, and nobody attributes it to Christianity. Ahmedinejad makes a political (and not related to religion) speech in line with his personal opinions, and suddenly Islam teaches anti-semitism? This is an invalid and illogical argument.

And it can have a lot to do with religion. If the church/clergy SAYS that something did/didn't happen then usually people accept that as the truth. Small Lemmings do listen to the Bigger Lemmings.

The fault in that is in

1) Some big lemmings for misleading
2) Their small lemmings for ignorance,

but it is not the fault of the concept of Lemmingness, or the entire lemming population

 

[Nick Garai]

That is an irony in itself But still, they don't "teach" stuff. The imams speak to masses before friday prayers only (and prayers on religious holidays), just like Christian priests with Sunday sermons. I have never heard an imam talk about historical events (of course I can't speak for all imams here). They usually talk either about how we should behave, or current world events prayer for those who currently suffer etc. I mean, I guess an imam may talk about Palestinian sufferings - as it is current - but I can't imagine any would waste their sermon on some 60 year old event that is not even remotely related to Muslims.

No the Imams may not be historians, but a religious leader still has power of influence.

I know he does that. Most of the holocaust denouncers are Christian - does that mean Christians are anti-semitic? I don't understand why actions of crazy muslims (Taliban, ObL, Ahmedinejad) are often attributed to Islam, while actions of crazy Christians are not attributed to Christianity. Two kids do the Columbine massacre in US, and nobody concludes Christianity teaches kids to kill their classmates. Bush acts in his Bushy ways, and nobody attributes it to Christianity. Ahmedinejad makes a political (and not related to religion) speech in line with his personal opinions, and suddenly Islam teaches anti-semitism? This is an invalid and illogical argument.

This is true. Christianity is anti-semitic. Historically, Christians have persecuted the Jews ruthlessly in Europe. Convert or die. Leave Europe or die. It is historically factual. This can be proven historically although it is not intended to be that way, the Protestant and Catholic Christian chuches do take much of their notions from persons who have had profound influence in the church.

The fault in that is in

1) Some big lemmings for misleading
2) Their small lemmings for ignorance,
but it is not the fault of the concept of Lemmingness, or the entire lemming population

[/QUOTE]
A lemming political science student - Cute!

 

[Sidhe]

I was asking a muslim questions in the ask a muslim thread....my god whats wrong with me. If he didn't want to answer he didn't have to. Nor did you have to go on about it seeing as non of it was directed at you. And yet again someone tells me where I get my views from so since this is an ask a thread I'll ask you to tell me exactly what it is my views are where they come from, what media exactly. Since you know.

Ok I see American media all the time I have cable, I view all your news, so I do know how biased it is, and I also see BS like Ahmadinejad said that "Israel should be wiped off the map" in the NYT, that I just have to debunk, trouble is, I fear it did little good I bet most Americans and no doubt British people still believe that's what he said, I'm as you know unbiased, but the amount of propaganda I see is awful, and as a Westerner I find it shameful that we misrepresent the facts so wholeheartedly, I really wish people could dig deeper than their own media, but people are lazy.

I thank you for your questions, but I think they belong on another thread, where we can make a political argument not a religous one, it was mentioned by the posters too, if you took it as a slight against your argument that's my fault I got a little annoyed, sorry 'bout that. Time of the year or month or something.

 

[s.c.dude]

any muslims still here?

 

[knigh+]

This is true. Christianity is anti-semitic. Historically, Christians have persecuted the Jews ruthlessly in Europe. Convert or die. Leave Europe or die. It is historically factual.

It is also historically factual that the Jews who left Europe went to Muslim lands, as Muslims were much more tolerant than medieval Europe.

Quran says Israelites disobeyed and sometimes killed prophets in the past, so Islam could be said to be slightly anti-semitic. Showing here:

5:82 - Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them (mankind) in love to the believers (of Qur'an) will you find those who say "we are Christians", because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world and they are not arrogant.

But it also has pro-Jewish statements as such:

5:46 - And in their (prophets, rabbis and doctors of Law) footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

2:62 - Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

29:46 - And dispute ye not with the People of the Book (Jews & Christians), except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."

any muslims still here?

Yep, but I can't devote the horrendous time or resources Salah-al-Din has been doing. And I was about to leave.

 

[Nick Garai]

When someone uses the term Anti-Semitic, that term arose and toke power after WW2. Prior to that the political terms were Zionist, Jewry, and other terms. Chrstianity, Islam and Judaism have been tossing around terms against each other since their existence.

When someone mentions anti-semitism, it is referring to Holoaust deniers. Muslims will call us Crusaders and Infidels, Christians call Muslims barbarians and other names.

Each faith has its own scriptures and tenents for treating the others with both humanity and cruelty.

The Roman Catholic Church, in Spain, enforced the Inquisition, Italy the Ghettoes, nited Kingdom and the Americas Immigration Quotas during WW2, etc...

The Protestant Church imposed these based on their denomination's ethnic orientation and origins.

Church leaders (Martin Luther) made anti-jewish comments. Even Billy Graham was caught making anti-Jewish comments (do a google search).

The Muslims were more tolerant probably because they didn't anticipate a nation of Israel to re-emerge. Had they known about this happening I don't know if that would have been the case. That is up for debate. For the most part I have had pleasant experiences with persons who are Islamic. There are those who are fundamental as much as there as those in the Church who are fundamental.

I am a Messianic Believer (Still attend Christian services).

 

[knigh+]

When someone uses the term Anti-Semitic, that term arose and toke power after WW2. Prior to that the political terms were Zionist, Jewry, and other terms. Chrstianity, Islam and Judaism have been tossing around terms against each other since their existence.

Thanx, I didn't know about such a distinction.

When someone mentions anti-semitism, it is referring to Holoaust deniers. Muslims will call us Crusaders and Infidels, Christians call Muslims barbarians and other names.

Each faith has its own scriptures and tenents for treating the others with both humanity and cruelty.

The Roman Catholic Church, in Spain, enforced the Inquisition, Italy the Ghettoes, nited Kingdom and the Americas Immigration Quotas during WW2, etc...

The Protestant Church imposed these based on their denomination's ethnic orientation and origins.

Church leaders (Martin Luther) made anti-jewish comments. Even Billy Graham was caught making anti-Jewish comments (do a google search).

The Muslims were more tolerant probably because they didn't anticipate a nation of Israel to re-emerge. Had they known about this happening I don't know if that would have been the case. That is up for debate. For the most part I have had pleasant experiences with persons who are Islamic. There are those who are fundamental as much as there as those in the Church who are fundamental.

I am a Messianic Believer (Still attend Christian services).

All this seems like you are saying "everybody at some point has hated everybody for various reasons, and often used religion as an excuse".? If so, I agree.

On the sidenote: Muslims used infidel mostly for polytheists/pagans, while labeling monotheistic peoples (Jews and Christians) as People of the Book. Of course the concept of Trinity made it easy for some to switch the categorization of Christians, when political need arose. But (at least as far as Quran is concerned) Islam is not particularly negative towards Christianity (see my quotes from Quran a few posts ago).

 

[Azkonus]

Originally Posted by Nick Garai
knigh+, the clergy in Islam are more powerful than in Christianity

That is an irony in itself But still, they don't "teach" stuff. The imams speak to masses before friday prayers only (and prayers on religious holidays), just like Christian priests..

Knigh+ my friend, you are giving wrong info here. Imam's power is no way near Christian priests... Imams have no power on you he just show you moves of salat (namaz) and gives friday talks thats all.

Many many christians here are missionaries. Have not you met once yet? I know plenty and they go to other countries to spread their religion. Amazing is not it? Priests and churches here are extremely powerful. What can an imam do? And mosque is basically an empty building

 

[GenMarshall]

Alright, can we please not devulge this thread into a Muslim-Christian bashing thread please?! This thread is ment for Non-Muslims to ask questions to Muslims, not to debate.

Please, if you want to debate about something thats in there. Take it to a new thread.

 

[Turner]

Why not animals?

I mean, there tends to be an assumption that certain acts are okay and that others aren't when often the distinction is arbitrary. You might say that animals can't consent, but having sex with one is probably not worse than killing and eating it.

Killing and eating the animal is what we are. We're Predators. Predators hunt and kill Prey, and eat them. It's the Food Chain, and we just happen to be on top of it. I'm not going to get silly and say that Prey understand their place, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

But as others have stated, yeah, it's all about consenutallity. Animals can't consent to sex with humans. When they can, then I'll adjust my feeling accordingly.

Dude, that girl is weird for getting angry at you. I've eaten Halal food my entire life, and I've never once been so obnoxious to impose myself on someone else. If I go somewhere and they are serving non-Halal food, then I make up excuses like "oh I'm just not hungry" or "I just ate" because I do not want the other person to feel bad.

Didn't want to threadjack the other thread, so I'll ask here.

So you wouldn't eat it at all? Would it be a sin (or the muslim equivalent) if you did eat it to be polite? Or would that be something that could be easily forgiven?

Still waiting on an answer for this.

 

[Salah-Al-Din]

Here is another question from me: What do you think about the Saudis not allowing any non-muslims to enter Mecca? Personally I don't remember ever approving anything Saudis did, and this is no exception. I think they should allow at least ehl-i-kitab (Jews and Christians) to visit the first temple to God of Abraham.

All human beings are allowed to enter Mecca and Medinah, including Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc.

The position taken by the Saudi government is incorrect.

When Prophet Muhammad (s) defeated Mecca and conquered it, there were many Quraish pagans still living there and no instance of expulsion has been reported. On the contrary, the Prophet (s) protected them and *forbade* them from being expelled or harmed. Furthermore, the Prophet (s) even allowed the People of Taif to stay *inside* the mosque, and these people were non-Muslims at the time. In another instance, the Prophet (s) also recieved the Christians of Najran in his mosque in Medinah. In fact, the Christians even prayed in the mosque, and when some of the Prophet's Companions were going to intervene, the Prophet (s) strictly commanded: “Leave them (to perform prayer).”

Imam Abu Hanifah, the most followed of the four great Imams, not only allowed polythiests to enter the area of Mecca and Medinah, but he also permitted them to enter the Holy Mosque (i.e. the Ka'abah). Imam Ahmad also saw no problem in this, and he declared that if they obtained permission from the Muslims they could even enter the mosques of Mecca and Medinah; therefore, it can be seen that it is permissible so long as it is not a matter of force. If the disbelievers seek to conquer Mecca and Medinah or station troops there, then this is not permitted and the Muslims must ressist this. If, however, the intentions of the non-Muslims is peaceful, then there is no harm in it.

Shaikh Faraz Rabbani says: "It is permitted for non-Muslims to enter all mosques, including the Haram of Mecca (i.e. Ka'abah)."

The position taken by the Saudi government (i.e. placing signs in Mecca and Medinah that prohibit non-Muslims from entering) is largely a political stunt. These signs were placed only *after* the Saudi government allowed US troops to station themselves in Saudi Arabia near the Holy Land. This move was widely criticized by Islamists as an act of treachoury. The Arab Muslims view the Americans as an enemy nation, and they do not appreciate their government whoring out their country like that. Not only this, but the stationing of non-Muslim troops near the Holy Land of Mecca and Medinah is considered forbidden in Islam. It would be like a US President allowing the USSR to station its troops in Washington. That would be the end of his presidency, and the American people wouldn't stand for it.

A similar reaction occurred in Saudi Arabia, with many Islamists even going to the extreme of declaring a revolution against Saudi Arabia. In order to cover up this fact (that the Saudi kings had allowed Americans to station their troops in the Holy Land), the Saudi government put up those signs. It was a PR strategy, to make themselves look conservative and to hide the true fact that they had opened up the Holy Land to American forces.

Those signs are just a PR strategy and nothing else, designed to cover up the fact that Saudi's government is the puppy dog of America. The signs are *not* enforced and I've *never* heard of them being enforced. I've been to Mecca and Medinah, and I've met non-Muslims there. And these signs are just put in place so that the Saudis can cover their butts, because in fact they *are* violating the Islamic ruling that foreign troops cannot enter the Holy Land. It is completely ******** that the Saudis allow armed troops in the region but somehow find it abhorrent to allow peaceful unarmed civilians.

It is sometimes difficult for non-Muslims to understand the nuances in the ranks of the Muslims, and difficult to understand who all the players are. In fact, the very people who put up those signs are the ones who invited the American soldiers *into* the Holy Land. As for the Islamists like myself, we are simply against the stationing of US troops in the region and could care less if unarmed non-Muslims entered so long as they did so in a respectful manner. The example of Salah Al-Din (r) is itself telling...he never prohibited Jews and Christians from entering the Holy City (Al-Quds) so long as they did so unarmed. He even went so far as to promise their safety.