Ask a Muslim

[Salah-Al-Din]

Straight up yes or no answer please

Do you think Christians burn in hell?

Allah says in the Quran:

"Surely, those who believe (i.e. Muslims),
those who are Jewish, the Christians...
anyone who
(1) believes in GOD, and
(2) believes in the Last Day, and
(3) leads a righteous life,
shall have their reward with their Lord.
They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve." (Quran, 2:62)

Straight up.

 

[Elrohir]

What about these verses then?

Koran 5:51
O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Koran 98:1-8
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.

If "People of the Book" means "Christians", and I believe it does, isn't this saying that Christians will burn in hell? Isn't this in contradiction with the verse you just quoted?

 

[Mott1]

Your language is designed to be sarcastic in nature. I do not appreciate this.

I clearly said that Islam recognizes men and women as spiritual equals. However, there are certain matters which differ due to the basic differences in men and women.

Once again, your sarcastic use of language is a bit...annoying. You used the word "burden" simply to impart to your sentence an anti-Islamic flavor. Is it tongue-in-cheek.

The fact is that religious and moral societies have always advised their women to dress modestly. You can use whatever language you want to describe it, but this is the case. Why in the world do Christian nuns dress like they do? In fact, Christian nuns dress pretty much *exactly* like Muslim women are advised to dress: in loose outer garments and with a headscarf. So why do people have such a big issue with Muslim women but somehow they look upto and respect nuns?

No, Salah-Al-Din does not agree with you. Who says the men are portrayed as innocent and who play the role of victim? Far from it. In fact, the man who looks at women and checks them out is condemned in the harshest tones in the Islamic canon. It is said that molten lava will be poured into his eyes in the Next Life. If Islam were saying that the man is the victim, then why would the punishment for checking out a woman be molten lava in the eyes?

Therefore, Islam's stance is that the woman showing off her body is sinning and the man looking at her is sinning. Both are in a load of trouble. Neither are innocent victims. It is the same as the case with prostitution: a woman prostitute is to be condemned, but the man who buys her is also to be condemned.

In fact, Muslim men are enjoined and ordained to purify their hearts and to refrain from looking at women in that manner. In fact, there are even religious "recipes" and prayers that are used to cure a man's sexual drive when it comes to stranger women.

You say that veiling women will not cover the problem for weak men and sick hearts...firstly, I'd like to say that Islam would consider most of the men on this forum to be in that category. The babe thread is just one example. The society of the west is full of such men, so I do not see how they can sanctimoniously imply that it is only Muslim men who are such.

To conclude, Islam ordains that both men and women dress and look modest, and it enjoins on BOTH to lower their gaze and refrain from looking at the other and thinking vile thoughts.

Take care and apologies if I sounded harsh.

No apology is necessary, nothing you have said demands an apology. You are a polite person and that is an amiable trait, however politeness is not a virtue. There are many impolite people that display great virtue while there are many polite people that exhibit no virtue. The difference is in our preception of virtue, this is the essential reason why many people here are unable to fully grasp your belief system on either an intellectual or ethical platform. Again if you can explain what criterion you employ to determine morality, perhaps people can better understand the principles that you maintain.
You have admonished me on my careless account of the status of women in Islam, but I have only reiterated what you have already stated. The only difference is that I have phrased it in a disapproving manner, sarcasm is a form of language that expresses disapproval.

I am already familiar with the Islamic position on women and the literature which supports the traditional idea of gender roles. The theories of gender roles are proposed through the Islamic notion of fitra, the created nature of humans. The regimentation of Islamic tradition, but more improtantly the belief in the divine order of justice according to the moral standards of Muhammad, prescribes gender roles. The argument of the divinely created nature of humans and their gender roles may not need to be explained among an audience that has already accepted this religious belief, however when the audience inhabits a secular world which is not suffused in Islamic tradition, elaboration is needed for legitimation. Legitimation requires scientific evidence. The scientific evidence you then apply is the biological make up of male and female, you employ the science of gender biology in a manner that conforms to your beliefs while ignoring its dynamics such as the concept of a male/female polydimensional continuum. This is clearly evident when trying to explain the female 'awrah imperative. You state:

The temptation posed by men is less than the temptation posed by women

Temptation decribes an action which indictates a lack of self control. The female body does not "pose" temptation, it is the lack of male self control that designates the female body as "more tempting." This is simply an example of arrant male narcissism imparted by an eon old patriarchal mind-set.
You present an austere dichotomy between men and women which results in the idea of inequality on a "physical level." You assert that men and women are equal on a "spirtual level," however the idea of spiritual equality does not satisify the questions that are directed to the treatment of women established on the premise of physical inequality. The premise of inequality based on your usage of the biological differences leads to the idea of male superiority which formulates moral obligations rooted in gender inequality. This in turn is supported by the mandates of Allah. For example:

Q 4.34
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

In explaining this statement about the superior strength of a male that defends the subordinate role for women as needing protection and support, you draw upon the idea that physical inequality, being divine in nature, reflects moral guidance. To better understand your belief system one needs to study and research, this is the reason why I asked what is the proper approach to examine the Quran with the standards intellectual scrutiny? It would be appreciated if you can answer these two questions I presented in my previouse posts:

1. What criterion do you employ to determine morality?

2.What would be the proper academic approach to examine the Quran? what is the ideal platform that must be achieved on which the Quranic presciptions can be criticized by the standards of intellectual scrutiny?

 

[knigh+]

just passing by...

Another question - is it forbidden for a Muslim to eat prasad offered to him by a Hindu friend - food which has been offered to Hindu deities as sacrifice, and is considered pure and holy?

Quran clearly prohibits eating meat from an animal sacrificed to any deity other than God. See below

5:3 - Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject Faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

---------------------

I am a man

That was a total jawdropper (too bad this forum does not have the jawdrop smiley). Makes me wonder about the genders of other users with girl pics.

---------------------

What about these verses then?
If "People of the Book" means "Christians", and I believe it does, isn't this saying that Christians will burn in hell? Isn't this in contradiction with the verse you just quoted?

The verse you quoted says "unbelievers among People of the Book" therefore not all of them. See below for some verses other than the one Salah-Al-Din quoted above.

5:82 - ...nearest among them (mankind) in love to the believers (of Qur'an) will you find those who say "we are Christians", because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world and they are not arrogant.

5:46 - And in their (prophets, rabbis and doctors of Law) footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

29:46 - And dispute ye not with the People of the Book (Jews & Christians), except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."

There are some negative verses about Christians for belief in Trinity and Crucifixion, but I think that is reasonable. There wouldn't be any point in establishing a new religion if some beliefs of the older religions weren't to be considered as mistaken.

 

[Ansar]

j
That was a total jawdropper (too bad this forum does not have the jawdrop smiley). Makes me wonder about the genders of other users with girl pics.

Well, just in case you don't know, CivGeneral, the person with the female anime avatars is a guy.
And so is silver 2039.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

In fact, every poster with a girl avvie I know of, except Golde Touch and Mathilda, is a guy.

 

[knigh+]

In fact, every poster with a girl avvie I know of, except Golde Touch and Mathilda, is a guy.

I am almost sure that Bast is a girl. At least she didn't correct me in a few instances of "she", "girl", etc.

On the other hand, I am totally sure that this has nothing to do with Islam, therefore it is spam, therefore I shut up.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Actually, to make it relevant . . .

Given the importance of maintaining gender identity in real life, how do you feel about pretending to be something else, or at least challenging stereotypes, on the internet? A great way to get in touch with one's feminine side, or dangerous ground?

 

[Ansar]

Is homosexuality seen as a sinful lifestyle in Islamic law as it is in Christianity?

 

[Xanikk999]

Is homosexuality seen as a sinful lifestyle in Islamic law as it is in Christianity?

Much worse then christianity. Saudia arabia punishes those who perform gay acts with death.

 

[GinandTonic]

Much worse then christianity. Saudia arabia punishes those who perform gay acts with death.

I thought it wasnt so much the book being tougher on gays as the interpretation being harsher in some places.

 

[knigh+]

Actually, to make it relevant . . .

Given the importance of maintaining gender identity in real life, how do you feel about pretending to be something else, or at least challenging stereotypes, on the internet? A great way to get in touch with one's feminine side, or dangerous ground?

After 12 years of non-computer RPGs, I can pretend to be any character

 

[knigh+]

Much worse then christianity. Saudia arabia punishes those who perform gay acts with death.

I thought it wasnt so much the book being tougher on gays as the interpretation being harsher in some places.

Both sentences are correct. Islam is heavier on homosexuality. Some countries have very heavy punishments for it. This highly depends on interpretation.

Quran talks a lot about how prophet Lot's tribe was punished for homosexuality/bisexuality.
For muslim societies, there is a verse advising to punish gays until they repent and amend their behavior (ie. become straight). But the nature of punishment is not defined at all. So some societies interpreted it in worst ways, some societies just scorn homosexual behavior (social/psychological punishment rather than physical).
There is also a verse about lesbians, advising to keep them at home and not let them into society until they repent.

4:15 - If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way. 4:16 - If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

 

[incantrix]

The basic principle is that anyone with even a grain or iota of Iman (faith) in his heart will get Paradise. And we have also been told that no human being can judge any other human being because we cannot see what is inside the hearts.

Thank you! I couldn't articulate the same question earlier

If "People of the Book" means "Christians", and I believe it does, isn't this saying that Christians will burn in hell? Isn't this in contradiction with the verse you just quoted?

As knigh+ pointed out, it's the 'the unbelievers among...' Someone here (I forgot who, sorry!) had in their signature "Going to church doesn't make you any more a Christian than going to the garage makes you a car"

There are some negative verses about Christians for belief in Trinity and Crucifixion, but I think that is reasonable. There wouldn't be any point in establishing a new religion if some beliefs of the older religions weren't to be considered as mistaken.

I still have a hard time seeing the Trinity as One... to me, it is polytheistic. I think Protestants are confused by the Trinity too sometimes, right?

Is homosexuality seen as a sinful lifestyle in Islamic law as it is in Christianity?

I'm going to do red like Salah-Al-Din because I like colours.

And Lot! (Remember) when he said unto his folk: Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you? Lo! ye come with lust unto men instead of women. Nay, but ye are wanton folk.--7:80-81

I have read online that some Muslims have argued that this condemns only homosexual lust and not love. I have never met any such Muslim

I have only read the New Testament a few times, but the what the Qur'an says about homosexuality is not 'worse' than what Paul said about homosexuality.

In Turkey and Lebanon, homosexuality isn't illegal

 

[aneeshm]

I've got another two question, for both incantrix and Salah-al-Din:

Do you support the death penalty for apostasy?

Like Greek Civilisation has the Odyssey and the Iliad as its classics, India has two gigantic epic texts, the Ramayana and the Mahabharata, as its epics. Both are texts which have a bit of Hindu religion mixed in. However, the beauty of the texts lies not in their religious content (which is little, and nor very overt), but because of their beautiful language and the epic scope of the story they tell. Is it allowed for a Muslim to read and enjoy such books, if only for the great and epic story they tell, or is it forbidden for their non-Muslim religious content?

 

[aneeshm]

And Salah, it seems you missed one question of mine - is singing or classical vocal music , which uses no instruments, forbidden? Is it forbidden to listen to chanting or singing if the chanter's or singer's voice is as perfectly trained as a musical instrument?

 

[incantrix]

I've got another two question, for both incantrix and Salah-al-Din:

Do you support the death penalty for apostasy?

I don't support the death penalty at all. That's the Canadian in me speaking. I once left Islam and rejected God and I am sure glad now that I wasn't killed

My mother is a Christian convert and I don't want her to be killed either!

I also think it's contradictory to kill a man (women are not always killed for apostasy) for leaving Islam.

18:30 As to those who believe and work righteousness, verily We shall not suffer to perish the reward of any who do a (single) righteous deed.

2.256 Let there be no compulsion in religion


And there's a lot that can be considered apostasy To a zelot, even making a joke about Islam could be seen as apostasy.

While most scolars agree that death is the punishment for apostasy (and even saying they are wrong can be seen as apostasy), I feel very uneasy about it. I, for one, would never punish another person for converting to any faith and believe it should never be applied.

Like Greek Civilisation has the Odyssey and the Iliad as its classics, India has two gigantic epic texts, the Ramayana and the Mahabharata, as its epics. Both are texts which have a bit of Hindu religion mixed in. However, the beauty of the texts lies not in their religious content (which is little, and nor very overt), but because of their beautiful language and the epic scope of the story they tell. Is it allowed for a Muslim to read and enjoy such books, if only for the great and epic story they tell, or is it forbidden for their non-Muslim religious content?

We have long preserved the Greek works even when they were banned in the Christian West

 

[Salah-Al-Din]

What about these verses then?

Koran 5:51
O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Koran 98:1-8
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.


If "People of the Book" means "Christians", and I believe it does, isn't this saying that Christians will burn in hell? Isn't this in contradiction with the verse you just quoted?

If "People of the Book" means "Christians", and I believe it does, isn't this saying that Christians will burn in hell? Isn't this in contradiction with the verse you just quoted?

Hello, brother.

Unfortunately, this is the problem with such flashy quoting of the Quran by Islam-haters. (I'm not calling you one, but I know that many of them do quote such verses.)

Let us first examine the second verse you quoted. First off, you cited it as verse 98:1-8. This is incorrect. The verse you quoted was only verse 98:6.

And, as is commonly the case, you did not quote the very next verse, 98:7....you cut God off midway in His sentence, and you did not quote what followed what you quoted. Let us read the next verse, in which Allah says:

"As for those of them who believe and do good, surely they are the best of men." (Quran, 98:7)

Now let us read the entire passage, to get the context which you eliminated. Allah says that there are believers and disbelievers amongst the People of the Book (i.e. the Jews, Christians) and pagans. Allah says:

"Those who disbelieved from amongst the People of the Book and amongst the Polythiests, were not going to depart from their ways until there had come to them clear evidence: a Messenger from Allah rehearsing scriptures kept pure and holy wherein are right and straight Laws. Nor did the People of the Book become divided until after the proof came unto them. And they have been commanded no more than this: To worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true in faith; to establish regular prayer and to practise regular charity; and that is the Religion Right and Straight. Surely those who disbelieve from amongst the People of the Book and the polythiests shall be in hte Fire of Hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men. As for those of them who believe and do good, surely they are the best of men. Their reward is with their Lord: Gardens of Eden beneath which rivers flow; they will dwell therein forever. Allah (is) well-pleased with them, and they with Him: all this for such as fear their Lord and Cherisher." (Quran, 98:1-8)

So Allah divides the People of the Book and the pagans into two groups, one that are the worst of men but one that are the *best* of men. The latter group from amongst them are promised Paradise.

We see now how deceptive and vile these propaganda attacks are against Islam.

As for your second quote, you gave a very poor translation of the verse. The verse says:

"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for Awliyah; they are Awliyah of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for an Awliyah, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." (Quran, 5:51)

The word Awliyah does *not* mean "friend." The word for friend in Arabic is "Khaleel" and not "Awliyah." Awliyah is most closely translated as 'patron', or even better as "friendly protecting patron and savior". So what is forbidden is for a Muslim to take a Non-Muslim as a patron and to be at the mercy of him as a vassal. This is the humiliating status of Muslim countries today: they are all vassal states and they have taken the Western countries as patrons. This is considered Haram (forbidden) because Allah does not want us at the mercy and whim at Non-Muslims, because then they can if they want oppress us, which they do routinely evidenced by the status of the Muslim world today. This command was passed to the Muslims when they entered the second phase of the Prophetic Mission and were to no longer be subservient or dependant on any other group.

Muslims are allowed to be friends with Non-Muslims. Prophet Muhammad (s) was very good friends with Abu Talib, who was a pagan. And there are many other examples. Muslims are even allowed to marry Christians and Jews, so how could it be said that we can't be friends with them? Marrying them is a higher degree of love than simple friendship.

Once again, the tiresome campaign of disinformation against Islam is what causes confusion about the faith of Allah, and no doubt as more and more people become aware of this campaign of lies, they will come to realize the Truth in Islam.

Take care, brother.

EDIT: The penalty for apostasy is *not* death. I will post on this topic shortly, Allah Willing.

 

[Salah-Al-Din]

I have read online that some Muslims have argued that this condemns only homosexual lust and not love. I have never met any such Muslim

Any "Muslim" who claims such a thing has erred severely. This is nonsense and a lie attributed to Allah. Let them bring forth proof for this claim, but they can never do this. They simply guess and conjecture.

"If after this anyone invents a lie and attributes it to Allah, such are indeed unjust wrong-doers." (Quran, 3:94)

"Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about Allah, or rejects His revelations?" (Quran, Chapter 10)

"It is blasphemers who invent a lie against Allah; but most of them lack wisdom." (Quran, 5:103)

"Shall I seek OTHER THAN ALLAH as a source of law, when He has revealed THIS BOOK FULLY DETAILED? ....The word of your Lord is COMPLETE, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words; He is the hearer, the omniscient. Yet, if you obey the majority of people, they will take you away from the path of Allah. That is because they follow CONJECTURE (only)..." (Quran, 6:114-116)

 

[Salah-Al-Din]

Is homosexuality seen as a sinful lifestyle in Islamic law as it is in Christianity?

Much worse then christianity. Saudia arabia punishes those who perform gay acts with death.

Hello, my friends.

I apologize if I sound harsh when I say this, but it is rather amusing when so many Christians say such foolish things about Islam, not realizing that their own religious book says the same thing (or even "worse" things).

The penalty for homosexual acts is death in the Bible:

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)