Ask An Atlanteologist

[Masada]

I prefer to call it "unregulated capitalism".

 

[Valka D'Ur]

They have left a lot of evidence. Those are the ones that can only be verified because many of them are in private collections. You'll never see something such as this in a public collection. It's just too embarrassing for museums to show it on display.

Hmm. No reputable museum will show this stuff. How can they be verified unless archaeologists and specialists in dating methods can study them? Artifacts are academically worthless if they're not documented in situ, and are just removed by treasure hunters. That's why there are laws about this.

It's hard not to find interpretations where a World Wide Flood happened. The close of the Ice Age -- if, say perhaps the bottom of the sea floor was constant in it's geography -- says that the ancient coastlines of all continents was flooded, so in that context, it was World Wide and not Local. There are dozens of cities that are under the water, for instance. There are two in India, and about seven around the area of Morocco and Spain.

The sea floor is not constant. It's always changing.

That's not counting if the other planets were a source of flood waters. To be an Atlanteologist means you're a catastrophist. This is counter to Uniformatarianism -- where the opposite is espoused.

There wasn't enough water on Earth to flood it, so more was imported for the occasion from the other planets - none of which had liquid water that recently?

When Venus started to become unstable due to Saturn's and Mars' influence, we painted the wheel on rock, and then invented it. It was only when Mars started to become physically unstable that we ran into problems.

Venus became unstable because of Saturn and Mars, and Jupiter, the largest planet in the Solar System was entirely uninvolved, I take it? And this instability is why you personally, along with others, painted a picture of a wheel on a rock, and then invented it. How did inventing the wheel help alleviate Venus' instability, and why would Mars' instability affect your invention of the wheel?

Both Evolution and YEC can co-exist if they stop with the nonsense. For us, we want one or the other, well; its both. If they can accept it's both, then they can both come together and see where they can come together.

No. YEC and evolution cannot coexist, because YEC denies that anything existed prior to 6000 years ago, when the evidence plainly shows the Universe has existed for far longer than that. Evolution is a process that takes far longer than a human lifetime, and is an ongoing process – for humans, as well.

The Electric Universe is a much simpler explanation.

How long is the Universe's extension cord, and where is it plugged in? Who runs the electric company, and how much does it cost each month? Who pays?

What evidence can and will you provide to convince me that any of this "Atlanteology" stuff has historical or scientific merit?

Do you have an open heart and mind? Both are needed. I can provide you with a lot of evidence. From clothing styles in the Neolithic Age, to the invention of the Wheel, to the World Wide Language, to ancient maps, to pole shifts.

My heart is irrelevant to this discussion except as far as it functions to keep my body alive. My mind is open to peer-reviewed EVIDENCE. You have provided absolutely NOTHING that would constitute evidence.

There's a saying on this forum: "Pics or it didn't happen." So let's see the pictures of the Neolithic Atlantean clothing, plus these other artifacts that are too embarrassing to be shown in a reputable museum. Where are the peer-reviewed studies of this "World Wide Language"? Are the "ancient maps" similarly verified and dated?

Because the Solar System has the most impact. Particularly, Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, and Mars. Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, and Mars used to be in Alignment -- straight line, north to south. Earth was fixed in Saturn's LaGrange point for an Indeterminate time. And our Ancestors back at that time saw it.

So Earth used to be in orbit around Saturn? How did Earth's lifeforms survive, considering Saturn's orbit is too far from the Sun for carbon-based life like us to survive? How did Earth get from there to here?

When did you decide that von Daniken and Velikovsky actually knew what they were talking about, instead of them being absolute crackpots? I read their books over 35 years ago, and to my intense embarrassment, I actually bought in to the "ancient astronaut" nonsense... until I started studying anthropology and got my mind cleared of that stuff. "Chariots of the Gods" is not a scientific text any more than the Old and New Testaments are.

The stuff we've left on the moon would be there for millions of years.

Or until the next people to get there pick it up for salvage, or to sell it to a museum or lab.

 

[Borachio]

Anyway. How come the big-bang banged, but black holes don't?

It's a bit of a mystery to me.
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I want to know more about this Atlantean, Elton John (I presume it is you, Elton John).

What's his name and do you have a picture? It's not that guy - what's his name? - you know, the one who wrote the music that you put words to?

Bernie Ecclestone... or something?

 

[timtofly]

Black holes may be the big bang of another universe?

@ Cheezy and Barachio

Space is "flat" as in we can observe no curve, and until we can observe it in totality (move faster than light and faster than expanding space) we will never know if space will "fold" back into itself as in "the other side (diameter) wise" of the balloon.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Anyway. How come the big-bang banged, but black holes don't?

It's a bit of a mystery to me.

Because black holes singularities are not the same as big-bang singularities? Singularity is a mathematical word which basically means numbers goes to infinity. We dont really know what is beyond the events horizont if there is something, in the same why we dont know what happened before the Big-bang if something happened.

There is a number of theories about what, why, how... thought. Lately a theory which is getting stronger is inflation, most accurately "eternal inflation" which leads to the multiverse scenery. So basically the Big-Bang was not the beginning of everything from nothing, there are infinite universe bubbles where other universe bubbles are born resulting in some kind of cosmical foam. The mechanism involves some kind of primoldial state called "false vacuum" which at a given moment "bangs" into true vacuum universes or at least lower energy vacuum universes.

Returning to black holes, and like timtofly suggested, some scientists think black holes in our universe contains such "false vacuum" zones which would eventually lead (or already have leaded) to the creation of new universal bubles.

 

[Goodfella]

Lagrange is not an airport in NYC, so there's no reason to capitalize the G.

Oh I thought we were talking about LaGuardia points.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Oh I thought we were talking about LaGuardia points.

Lagunitas? You mean the ZZ Top song?

 

[Goodfella]

No, we're discussing my Lagrange error. I poorly approximated its spelling.

 

[EltonJ]

I would need some contradictory evidence, or even a reasoned view, otherwise, it could just be by the giant spaghetti monster and not atlantians at all, that forfills the what if criteria after all...

Contradictory evidence has been gathered and being gathered.

Christopher Dunn (http://www.gizapyramid.com/chrisdunn.htm) says that the Great Pyramids are actually electrical power plants and have been built with crystalline structures.

For the theory that Imhotep may have known about electricity, but there is no evidence that Djedkare Isesi, the Pharoah during his time; had it harnessed. If he did harness electricity, then the first intermediary period may have been much more devastating than they are telling us. That is, if the First Vizier did -- indeed -- build the Great Pyramids.

WoW, six pages already. This is what happens when you take the day off CivFanatics to do work for your publisher.
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I want to know more about this Atlantean, Elton John (I presume it is you, Elton John).

What's his name and do you have a picture? It's not that guy - what's his name? - you know, the one who wrote the music that you put words to?

Bernie Ecclestone... or something?

Answer to question 1: Don't confuse me with the musician. The musician with my name probably can't work with InDesign as well as I can. He also probably thinks I'm some kind of nut.

Answer to question 2: No, I am not authorized to talk about him or show him off. It's a professional courtesy. If he wants to reveal himself on these forums, its his choice, not mine.

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How close is the Disney movie Atlantis: The Lost Empire to representing the technology, society, and ultimate fate of the Atlantean civilization?

Pretty close. Although the first rule about that movie.

1 -- It's just entertainment.

2 -- The Crystal Power Source in the movie is not at all possible. It's not real science.

3 -- The Atlantean vehicles in the movie are possible, but out of place artifacts recovered show that aeroplanes based on turbines and bournelli's principle were used as flying machines. (http://www.philipcoppens.com/bbl_plane.html)

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Originally Posted by Lillefix
So, do you recommend any good books on Atlantis? Fiction and non fiction.
The obvious one would be Timaeus, by Plato

(in the September circle i will have to research it a bit, along with some other dialogues of Socrates).

Quest for the Lost Civilization -- Video Presentation by Graham Hancock.

Ignatius Donnally's The Antediluvian World

Fingerprints of the Gods by Graham Hancock

Underworld: The Mysterious Origins of Civilization by Graham Hancock

Atlantis Rising Magazine.

Forbidden Archaeology by Michael A. Cremo and Richard L. Thompson.

~ Fiction ~
The Timaeus and the Critias by Aristocles or Plato.

2,000 Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne

Any Aquaman or Namor comic.

--- Those come off at hand. There are other sources I can't mention because there is more than I can remember at the moment.


----------------------------------------------------

I'll get to the others in turn.

 

[EltonJ]

A more indicative thing to find would be one of their abandoned mines. Surely an advanced civilization would need to extract metals from the earth, and those are things that don't degrade over time like household trash or other artifacts. If Atlantis had actually existed, I'm sure we would have found at least one of them by now.

Frankly, I'm thinking this is just some sort of elaborate troll thread. I really can't see anyone sincerely believing in any of this.

Thousands of pounds of copper was extracted from an ancient mine in Michigan.

 

[EltonJ]

Would you care to dedicate a post to ancient maps? It is too late at night for me and I am otherwise too lazy to look up "Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings." That is a pretty old book. Is there newer information?



This is like an interview on late night talk radio without having to stay up so late.

Graham Hancock began his theses with the Piri Reis map:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...d_map_01.jpg/449px-Piri_reis_world_map_01.jpg

(click on the link for higher resolution, please)

Then there is the World Map Stone in Equador that Graham Hancock did not know about:

And then there is Google Earth. If you point Google Earth to 29 degrees, 53 minutes North and 28 degrees and 27 minutes South, you will see an underwater formation that looks suspiciously like this:

And if, you look hard enough, you can find that Google had did a bad job on blurring some suspicious looking straight lines on the ocean floor to the Northeast of the formation.

I typed Northwest before that, so I made a common mistake. Sorry about that.

 

[EltonJ]

Hey man I dig Coast to Coast. I love this stuff. I want to believe!



More questions!

(1) What is the evidence they left (do you have some sort of general description of the items in these private collections); and

(2) Why would a museum not want to showcase a potentially groundbreaking artifact proving the existence of an ancient advanced civilization that no one knew about? Surely some brave curator would be willing to put his career on the line to potentially break what would be one of the biggest new discoveries in human history? Museums have gotten over previous embarrassments to embrace proven new finds; the extinction of the dinosaurs, the Big Bang, etc.

It's embarrassing, I say again. That's why there is a book on Forbidden Archaeology. To give you a detailed answer means going into the Illuminati's Creation Myth. It's different than any other creation myth. There is echos of it in the Bible, of course.

 

[Borachio]

And if, you look hard enough, you can find that Google had did a bad job on blurring some suspicious looking straight lines on the ocean floor to the Northeast of the formation.

I typed Northwest before that, so I made a common mistake. Sorry about that.

The only sizeable landmass that has the Americas to the East and Africa to the West is, naturally enough, Australia.

And, oh look, North and South Islands of New Zealand?

I'll grant you that the indigenous Australians have shown some signs of civilization, especially socially and culturally (technologically too, though somewhat less so).

Do you mean that they are Atlanteans?

 

[EltonJ]

Do you mean that they are Atlanteans?

No. The Australian Aborigines are possibly older, or contemporary. An offshoot of their race in South America had the strangest patriarchal initiations -- rites of passage. Which stated that our women, at one time, were the political, scientific, and religious leaders of civilization.

We have no idea of what the World Wide Matriarchal order was like technologically, if it is was true.

 

[Senethro]

The only sizeable landmass that has the Americas to the East and Africa to the West is, naturally enough, Australia.

And, oh look, North and South Islands of New Zealand?

I'll grant you that the indigenous Australians have shown some signs of civilization, especially socially and culturally (technologically too, though somewhat less so).

Do you mean that they are Atlanteans?

I think that word on the left is Hispania (Spain) meaning the map has south as up.

That said, I don't see anything in that location except for the Azores.

 

[Arakhor]

I saw Graham Hancock's Quest for the Lost Civilisation when it was on British TV years ago. His ideas of a global civilisation circa 10,500 BC were interesting, but they were hardly convincing.

 

[Kyriakos]

I think that word on the left is Hispania (Spain) meaning the map has south as up.

That said, I don't see anything in that location except for the Azores.

That word definitely is not Hispania. I thought it is Hyperia, but i could not google much about that which would justify the map (first wiki hit is the info that Hyperia supposedly was another name for the island of Amorgos, a small island in the central Aegean).

I have to suppose then that the word on that map is Hesperia, which is (ancient) Greek for "West". Don't know if it was tied to a mythical continent, but this would not surprise me anyway, cause the name kind of allows for such a mythical/other tie.

 

[Borachio]

I think that word on the left is Hispania (Spain) meaning the map has south as up.

That said, I don't see anything in that location except for the Azores.

I agree. It didn't actually occur to me that the map might be upside down!

It's always been my understanding that Atlantis was (supposed to be) in the Atlantic, somewhere. Hence the name.

But as with all fabled continents, like Po1@nd, they do have a habit of moving around.

 

[Arakhor]

I think that word on the left is Hispania (Spain) meaning the map has south as up.

Yes, those are very clearly supposed to be the Pillars of Heracles, especially as the Golden Apples of Hesperia were probably actually Spanish oranges.

 

[timtofly]

So when Atlantis was swallowed into the crust, was "Americas" forgotten to even exist?